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Chaplains Corner A place to discuss religion, personal problems, or to request advise from someone who will listen and provide moral support.

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Old 11-17-2020, 01:56 PM   #1
bill3542
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Default As a godless heathen how do I believe what you say.

This is not a rip on anyone here but I see all religions as nothing more than a way to steal money off people, understand this is nothing personal but I don't get the connection religious people talk about.

Look at the church with all these pedo priests, look at islam it's the religion of the insane with these goat humping savages preferring farm animals or little boys.

Maybe I'm just to cynical, a friend of mine will sometimes refer to me as ( Thomas The Doubter ) in return I ask him about his fiction fantasy novel wrote to fool goat herders or the divine right of kings to rule over peasants.

I simply don't get what you see in it.
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:47 PM   #2
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You don't have to be religious to have faith in God. I believe in a much higher power, but don't usually care to hear someone else's interpretation of the Bible.
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Old 11-17-2020, 03:45 PM   #3
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I ran into a minister at the grocery store

I had never seen him before, He asked

what church my wife and I attended and

I told him that we had a lot of religious

differences...he asked “how so?”

I told him that I was a Methodist and

my wife was the devil...

I thought that he was going to roll in

the aisle...
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Old 11-18-2020, 06:07 AM   #4
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Being a simple man, it is hard for me to sound like a superior authority, but I do believe in God, or as others say “a higher power”. When I asked about God and the devil, my father told me many year’s ago as a little boy, that the devil is in your head, and that God lives in your heart.

Religion is a man made thing, God does not need a building or money to exist. He has existed forever. A chemistry teacher once told me to take a real look around you. A simple look at something like the periodic table of elements is such an example. Nobody can convince me that everything lines up perfectly vertical and horizontal was just a coincidence and just happenstance.

I have been involved with many churches and religions over the years and found even the the best intentioned are constrained by money matters, and many others are simply profit makers. Now that I’m retired I get to live in the original and IMHO God’s only church. Every morning the dog and I “go to church” and thank God for everything and the privilege to start another day. I do not have to wait until Sunday and give money to someone else to enjoy his blessings.

God is in your heart, it is completely up to you whether you accept it or not.

For what it is worth that is my two cents on the subject.
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:36 AM   #5
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There is a huge difference between believing in God and being part of a corrupted institution.
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Old 11-18-2020, 09:25 AM   #6
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Some people believe the bottom of a whiskey bottle, dope, etc is there religion, etc
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:51 AM   #7
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There is a huge difference between believing in God and being part of a corrupted institution.
Amen Preacher.

Most churches are corrupted by greed, they are, after all, run by men who commit the same sins we all do.
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Old 11-18-2020, 11:17 AM   #8
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Bill, to put it bluntly, you will never see something unless you are looking for it. If you choose to see only the corruption, then the corruption is all that you will see.

Think of it like this. Do you have restaurants that you like and restaurants that you dislike? If so, what makes you like or dislike? You are probably going to like a restaurant that serves the tasty food that you like and gives you a good bargain for your money. You will dislike restaurants that overcharge you, give you poor service and serves you lousy food. But I am willing to bet that you not understanding why a lousy restaurant would give you bad service, that it's not going to stop you from eating food.

Take auto mechanics for instance. Some are good at their job and fix your car properly. Some take good care of their customers. Some do not. There are good and bad in any profession. And while agree 100% it is true that God does not need a building, would you take your vehicle to a mechanic that operates out of a parking lot? If the mechanic didn't have a building, he/she would have no warm place to work and their tools would get rusty when it rains.

The truth is, we are human and the human element does infiltrate into religion. But somehow, we do not afford religious organizations the same luxuries we do other organizations. Would you go to a hospital in the middle of winter for an operation if you knew they were going to operate on you in the middle of a storm, outside in the parking lot? People live in homes. Doctors operate inside of buildings. Dentists pull teeth inside of buildings. Groceries are sold inside of buildings. Mechanics work on cars inside of buildings. All of these organizations could offer you a cheaper price for their service if they did not have the expense of maintaining a building. But who would use their services? Who would buy a loaf of soggy bread in the rain from a vendor in the street?

If all of these other organizations can have building to provide services in a comfortable atmosphere, then why can't the Church?

There's good and bad in every profession. You will have this in anything where the human element is involved. And while I view ministry as more of a calling than I do a profession, there are still many similarities. Similarities that we will never be able to disconnect ourselves from as long as there is the human element.

Yes, we are going to have a building to stay warm in. Yes, we are going to need money to maintain it. Yes, we are going to pay our employees a fair wage.

I am able to provide services to my community because I have people that support me.

Many times I have been called out in the middle of the night because there is a need. I have talked down suicide victims because EMS was 20 minutes away and I was 5 minutes away. I've also been 10 seconds too late. I've gone to comfort people on deathbeds at 3am. I've fed hungry people. I've cleaned up flood ravaged homes. I've sorted through the ashes helping families find any trace of a memory that might have survived a fire. Ive been covered in blood on more occasions than I care to mention helping someone in need. Some of the most miserable times I have had in my life have come from serving the Church. I have memories that haunt me every single day of my life and some days I am not sure that I can even face the day. But yet, somehow I find the strength to continue on, because that is what i am called to do.

But at the end of the day, I am human and I have human needs. I've got to eat. I've got bills to pay. I have family to support. Bottom line, it takes money. And while it's not about the money for me, but that doesn't change the fact that I need it to survive in today's world. I need it. You need it. Everyone reading this forum needs it no matter how self-sufficient that you think you are.

It is not fair to have the assumption that the Church does not need money to operate in today's world. Jesus was able to walk on water, but I am not Jesus and I fall short miserably in many ways. But that's a story for another time.

I understand that you were asking an honest question and I fully understand that curiosity was your intent. That this was not asked in ill will. But this is the only way that I know to answer your question.

But I say again, you will never see something if you are not looking for it. If you want to understand, open your eyes. I am more than happy to talk more if needed.
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Old 11-19-2020, 06:21 AM   #9
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Thanks preacher, it's hard to understand how this can be a forgiving god when you look at the world today and what happens in it.

I had a 8 year old nephew who died a brain damaged vegetable unable to do anything in life because of a hospital screw up... so where was this god to help him?

My dad spent the last three years of his life unable to feed himself or recognise himself in a mirror due to Parkinson's and Alzheimer's... so where was this god to help him?

My 80 year old mother is currently going through dementia and is blind... so where was this god to help her?

Every time I see one of these snake oil salesman with their mega-churches I ask myself why hasn't someone put a bullet in the head of this POS.

Yes I'm a bitter cynical person with little tolerance for any religion and yes I've read your bible a few times and find the old testament to be the most dull and boring thing in the world. The new testament is better but still comes across as a poorly written fiction fantasy novel set-up to scare the foolish and illiterate, to scare old people into handing over money to get to a special place.

To me it sounds like the best scam that's been going on for over 2000 years and from what I see Christianity is a dying religion soon to be forgotten.

I'm considering reading up on the ancient pagan gods of the Norse as I am of partial Norse decent, maybe I'll find what I'm looking for their.

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Old 11-19-2020, 08:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
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I had a 8 year old nephew who died a brain damaged vegetable unable to do anything in life because of a hospital screw up... so where was this god to help him?

My dad spent the last three years of his life unable to feed himself or recognise himself in a mirror due to Parkinson's and Alzheimer's... so where was this god to help him?

My 80 year old mother is currently going through dementia and is blind... so where was this god to help her?
I am so sorry to hear about what has happened to people you love. As a parent who has buried 2 infant children, I can understand the frustration. I see the look in my wife's eyes when she sees someone else with a healthy baby. I cringe as I see otherwise healthy baby's born into drug addiction to parents that will never love them as they should be loved.

So, where was God and why didn't He stop it?

That's the $ 1,000,000 that many people have asked and few people know the answer to. But, it is a question that has been answered. Where was Jesus when my babies were born dead?

The answer is plain and simple. Jesus was on the Cross and Angels were waiting to carry my baby's home. We live in a broken world and we are the ones that broke it. Not God. There are consequences that comes from brokenness.

I've heard many people on this forum as well as other places say that if a person overdoses, well then, that's just natural selection taking its place. They deserved what they got because they did it to themselves. We force that responsibility on the addict, but at the same time we fail to accept that responsibility for ourselves when it comes to our own self inflicted brokenness. We loudly proclaim that it is not our fault and we scream from the rooftops ... Why did God let this happen?

Where was God when my baby's died? He was at Heaven's Gates waiting with open arms.

God forces nobody to accept or reject Him. He does not use fear to coerce people into submission. Far from it. He leaves that to our own choice.

Jesus has come into our lives to restore the connection that was once broken. Just like an addict has to want rehabilitation to be successful, we must also want restoration. I assure you that neither the New Testament or the Old are not works of fiction.

As far as being designed to scare the poor and the illiterate .... well, I hold 3 bachelors degrees and I'm working on my masters in a fourth. I find the Scriptures very comforting and not scary at all. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. But I'm always here to talk if you have any more questions.
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:12 PM   #11
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It still boils down to the same thing.... if this god and his son are all knowing and all seeing.... rrrr, I'm frustrated and I don't get it.
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Old 11-22-2020, 12:18 PM   #12
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It still boils down to the same thing.... if this god and his son are all knowing and all seeing.... rrrr, I'm frustrated and I don't get it.
Think of it like this. When I was 16, I didn't understand my Dad. As a matter of fact, when I was 16 I thought he was just about the dumbest man that ever walked the face of the earth. Fast forward 30 years and I have come to appreciate him as one of the wisest men I have ever known.

Just like there was a time when I did not understand my earthly father, there will definitely be times that we do not understand our Heavenly Father. The fact is, my father was always a wise man even during the time that I did not understand. My shortcomings did not change the fact of who he was. His wisdom was always there even when I did not see it.

Just like God's mercy is always there even when we do not see or understand.
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Old 11-23-2020, 09:44 AM   #13
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Bill I wish I had your faith. What I mean by this is, you clearly believe in God you are just pissed at him for the sad things that you have had to endure. I am not sure my faith is even strong enough to be mad at God. Really if you did not have some level of belief deep down you would not be concerning yourself with it. You are seeking answers in other places like pagan gods so you clearly are not an atheist. Also you single out Christianity which is also telling.

Remember God is not a rapist and he does not force his will on you, you must go to him. So ask and you shall receive just don't expect it on your terms.

On last parting thought, the greatest Saints struggled all the time with belief. St. John of the Cross referred to a time when God withdraws from you, or better said, does not give you the "spiritual" validation you seek to force you to trust in him and put yourself at his mercy. When you come through this time, sometimes called the Dark Night of the Soul, you will emerge with a greater faith than ever.

As for all of the "pastors" and "priest" who are just wolves in sheep's clothing, Christ had much to say about this. But do not fall for the trap of Satan which is to use them as a wall between you and God. He will not leave you an orphan.
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Old 11-28-2020, 01:42 PM   #14
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Seriously... I have no faith, I was brought up in a family that didn't do church.

I actually have read the bible a few times being a avid reader. The old testament is dull and boring, the new testament reads like a poorly written fiction fantasy novel.
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Old 11-28-2020, 02:30 PM   #15
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Bill, don't feel bad, having a scientific mind and being sort of a scientist (E.E. Deg) I have problems believing some things, So I have resorted myself to saying God is all things science can not explain yet.

When the Vesuvius erupted a couple thousand years ago the inhabitants of Pompeii believed they were being punished by God, for they had no understanding of how volcanoes worked. When the Aztecs had a bad crop year, they would sacrifice a few virgins to their God, for they had no understanding of climate. Today there are still a few things we do not understand and I wish to attribute them to God. It's the way it's always been. The more we know the less we question.
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