The Great DDB Elk Hunt of 2012

5knives · 10-03-2011, 03:40 PM

Seems this is a better forum to discuss the details first raised by Sanders post on the Kalashnakov thread at
: http://www.dirtydozensbunker.com/showthread.php?t=89330

I'll kick it off by asking for opinions about the use of .308 or 7mm-308 for Elk at ranges up to 300 yards. Or other suitable cartridges.

.308 and 7mm-308 are pretty much the same cartridge except the 7mm shoots a little flatter.

Both considered by "The Experts" to be a tad light for Moose but adequate for black bear, and blackies can and do get to the 500-600 pound weight of a mountain Grizzly.

If a 7mm magnum is suggested then an '06 would work just as well because in the common sporting configuration there just isn't all that much difference in the two. (MHO of course).

I've got a partially detched retina in my right eye so I've been warned to avoid heavy recoil, sold my 45-70's for that reason. Though 'heavy recoil' remains undefined, Brenneke 3" magnum slugs in a single shot 12 gauge meet my personal definition nicely though.

I do know for fact that prior to 1936 (when the '06 began to appear in numbers) the cartridge most used in Oregon by successful Elk hunters was the 30-30, and I know the 35 Remington works on everything in North America, from Antelope to Alaskan Grizzly but I consider both to be 200 yard cartridges, max.

And Oregon isn't the Western Colorado Rockies.

Any thoughts, suggestions and/or opinions are appreciated.

Regards,

...

gunnysmith · 10-03-2011, 07:29 PM

All of my elk fell to a 6 mm Remington from 65 to 340 yards.
I never had one even try to take another step. They all dropped where they stood.

10 Bears · 10-03-2011, 09:21 PM

Welll........
I've been a Thirtyphukinaughtsix fan most all my adult hunting life.
But, the last 30-40 years I've come to admire the .270 Win.
My current Remington BDL has harvested five, three at one stand.
All five were Mule Deer and worth the shot.
Never more than one shot and they went down to stay.

Granted, all five shots were under 100 yards.
All that said, I haven't seriously been hunting in 15 years.
I know I wouldn't do any hiking, would have to be from the ATV.
Some places don't allow that.

In reality? I'm thinkin' I should just stick to dreamin'.
I know better than to think I could go hunting and NOT be packed out.

Oh yeah, back to Elk, I wouldn't hesitate to take an elk with the .270 either.

Sanders · 10-03-2011, 09:31 PM

Well, I was recently given a Remington 700 in 7mm Rem Mag. I did some study on the cartridge, and have found that a 160 gr. bullet can be quite effective, and is a cartridge that performs best with hand loading. I have a year to work it out before the hunt - and you can use that, if you'd like.

I also have a .300 Win Mag that will do the trick.

But lots and lots of elk have been taken with the .30-06 and the .308. I would not feel undergunned with either of those rifles.

I recall folks on the FAL Files had an elk hunt in Colorado a few years ago, and they all used FAL's to fill their tags.

I believe we can put together a hunt that anyone can go on - no matter age or physical conditioning.

Desert Rat · 10-03-2011, 10:09 PM

I have a friend in Canada who used to guide hunters, etc. His elk rifle was the 270 and took damn near 70 of them. He finally got a 7mm Mag and said it wasn't a lick better.

Like 10B, I've been a 30/06 guy all my life. But since I got a 270 about 10 years ago, I've become total believer in what this gun will do. Also, 5K, you'll get less recoil, which may be very important to you.

And, by the way, my Canadian friend who used the 270 for decades, tells me his bullet of choice was 130 gr. Only elk he ever had trouble getting was shot with Nosler through both sides of ribs and gave pitiful expansion.

130 gr sounds a little light but you can argue with results...and 130 grs is heavier than anything a 243 is throwing at them.

I shoot 130 gr almost exclusively in my 270 and find it very fast, flat and pleasant to shoot. This would be my recommendation.

5knives · 10-04-2011, 01:44 AM

Thanks for the comments and experience gentlemen!

Much appreciated.

Checking the WEB for other opinions, and finally looking closely , err, make that very closely at the ballistics tables, I think either one of my 7-08's will do just fine on Elk.

You get out to 300 yards or so and the better S.D and B.C of the 7mm bullet starts to show. Makes sense as the 7-08 is really a 7x57 and that's in the 270, 30-06 class to begin with. And the 7mm mag is really in the same category (gotta look at 'em all in relation to the actual bbl lengths in use. In short it looks like the 20" bbl on my model seven is on the light side but with the 24" bbl on the Encore I've got plenty good 'power'.

After all just a few yards in range estimation, at distance, turns a 7mag into a 7x57 and vice versa. Couldn't find anyone, except for the usual suspects infected with terminal Magnumitis that didn't feel it was adequate under 200 yards.

Figure 100-150 fps gain or loss at the muzzle for every inch plus or minus what the round was chronographed at. For cartridges in this general class that is.

Plus Elk are normally hunted at elevation and the B.C gets better with altitude, thinner air makes for flater trajectory.

I'm guessing that anything in this class would benefit from partition, bonded, X frame i.e premium truly controlled expansion designs for both reliable penetration and expansion.

Guess the real answer is the same as always, placing a bullet capable of penetration to the vitals, where it's supposed to go. Looks like a 7-08 can do that.

Regards,

...

Desert Rat · 10-04-2011, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5knives

Guess the real answer is the same as always, placing a bullet capable of penetration to the vitals, where it's supposed to go. Looks like a 7-08 can do that.

Regards,

...

We've got peeps (seasoned hunters) who routinely take elk with 243s...but they stress bullet placement. I'd much rather have your 7/08, 5K. But with any gun, as the size of the animal increases, so does the importance of good bullet placement.

So far as I know, nobody has ever killed an elephant by shooting him in the ass.

You're the type fellow who knows his limitations and his gun's. Pick your shot and make it count and I'll bet money Mr. Elk will go home with you.

No magic involved. Just common sense.

Sanders · 10-04-2011, 08:52 AM

After studying some on the Co. Game and Fish website, it looks like Meeker is a good area to hunt. I've never been to Meeker, so I don't know what the terrain is like, but it looks like lots of public land.

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Pages/Home.aspx

Rew · 10-04-2011, 10:33 AM

7/08 should do just fine. Lot of elk have been taken with a .243 and it is simply a .308 necked to 6mm, the 7/08 is just a .308 not necked down as far.

Besides like you said elk were taken with that new high powered .30-30 after 1894 and 44-40's before that. I took one in dark thick timber where I really couldn't use the scoped 06 I had slung, I swear that thing came out from under my feet, it was bedded down, the S&W 29's front sight swung to just behind the shoulder on a slightly angled elk and fired. It took two more running steps and dropped. That's when I realized I had the gun in my hand and the holster was empty.

5knives · 10-04-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanders

After studying some on the Co. Game and Fish website, it looks like Meeker is a good area to hunt. I've never been to Meeker, so I don't know what the terrain is like, but it looks like lots of public land.

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Pages/Home.aspx

Up around Meeker and Craig is the only placr in the state I've seen Elk in the wild. Supposed to be a very good population there (last year).

Just driving through both times, and I don't trust my memory of the terrain.

Probably doesn't matter as I was never off the highway. Seem to recall some open gentle rolling land with some pretty steep looking 'hills' in the background.

Always wanted to live up that way for some reason, but winter tends to be a little more authoritative there, and between MaryAnn and myself I doubt we'd have access to the excellent medical care we do here.

Maybe a little cabin up that way AFTER we win the Powerball.

Regards,

...

Czubek · 10-04-2011, 05:07 PM

Craig used to be loaded with them. West into Maybell, if it's still there, was good hunting, too. West of Nederland, by the peat bogs, was good deer hunting, as I recall. Mind you, this has been forty years ago, though.

Brian

ErikD · 10-13-2011, 02:50 PM

I have no experience hunting elk in the US, but can't imagine that any of the usual cartridges within the range you have mentioned (.270/7mm/.30/++) would have any problems.

Might I suggest a european classic; 7x64 Brenneke? Just a tad slower than the 7mm RemMag, which will allow it to be used in a lighter rifle, and have less muzzleblast.

Sanders · 11-14-2011, 09:26 PM

Colorado Dept. of Wildlife's "Elk Hunting University".

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/...ssons2011.aspx

Sanders · 11-14-2011, 09:29 PM

From the Sept/Oct issue of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation's "Bugle" magazine:

Colorado
Elk Population: 283,400
Bull/Cow Ratio: 32/100
Nonresidents: cow $354; any elk: $554
Hunter success: 22 percent

bounce · 12-26-2011, 03:06 PM

the Game Rifle is a good book

10-03-2011, 03:40 PM	#1
5knives KaBoom Kontrol Modulator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado, Western Slope Posts: 16,229	The Great DDB Elk Hunt of 2012 Seems this is a better forum to discuss the details first raised by Sanders post on the Kalashnakov thread at : http://www.dirtydozensbunker.com/showthread.php?t=89330 I'll kick it off by asking for opinions about the use of .308 or 7mm-308 for Elk at ranges up to 300 yards. Or other suitable cartridges. .308 and 7mm-308 are pretty much the same cartridge except the 7mm shoots a little flatter. Both considered by "The Experts" to be a tad light for Moose but adequate for black bear, and blackies can and do get to the 500-600 pound weight of a mountain Grizzly. If a 7mm magnum is suggested then an '06 would work just as well because in the common sporting configuration there just isn't all that much difference in the two. (MHO of course). I've got a partially detched retina in my right eye so I've been warned to avoid heavy recoil, sold my 45-70's for that reason. Though 'heavy recoil' remains undefined, Brenneke 3" magnum slugs in a single shot 12 gauge meet my personal definition nicely though. I do know for fact that prior to 1936 (when the '06 began to appear in numbers) the cartridge most used in Oregon by successful Elk hunters was the 30-30, and I know the 35 Remington works on everything in North America, from Antelope to Alaskan Grizzly but I consider both to be 200 yard cartridges, max. And Oregon isn't the Western Colorado Rockies. Any thoughts, suggestions and/or opinions are appreciated. Regards, ...

10-03-2011, 07:29 PM	#2
gunnysmith Fear what you cannot see Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6,730	All of my elk fell to a 6 mm Remington from 65 to 340 yards. I never had one even try to take another step. They all dropped where they stood. __________________ Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. H. L. Mencken

10-03-2011, 09:31 PM	#4
Sanders Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 66,511	Well, I was recently given a Remington 700 in 7mm Rem Mag. I did some study on the cartridge, and have found that a 160 gr. bullet can be quite effective, and is a cartridge that performs best with hand loading. I have a year to work it out before the hunt - and you can use that, if you'd like. I also have a .300 Win Mag that will do the trick. But lots and lots of elk have been taken with the .30-06 and the .308. I would not feel undergunned with either of those rifles. I recall folks on the FAL Files had an elk hunt in Colorado a few years ago, and they all used FAL's to fill their tags. I believe we can put together a hunt that anyone can go on - no matter age or physical conditioning. __________________ "The truly dangerous man dresses inconspicuously and is soft- spoken. He walks away from most confrontations. The only time you learn that the truly dangerous man is mad at you is a split second before you die, for he never fights. He only kills. The truly dangerous man knows that fighting is what children do and killing is what men do." - Charley Reese 1986 3

10-04-2011, 05:07 PM	#11
Czubek slug Join Date: May 2007 Location: Stover, Missouri Posts: 33,622	Craig used to be loaded with them. West into Maybell, if it's still there, was good hunting, too. West of Nederland, by the peat bogs, was good deer hunting, as I recall. Mind you, this has been forty years ago, though. Brian __________________ 3 Here at the Dirty Dozen's Bunker, we have no problems, only solutions.

10-13-2011, 02:50 PM	#12
ErikD Mzungu Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: In the land of socialist nepotism and corruption. Posts: 6,342	I have no experience hunting elk in the US, but can't imagine that any of the usual cartridges within the range you have mentioned (.270/7mm/.30/++) would have any problems. Might I suggest a european classic; 7x64 Brenneke? Just a tad slower than the 7mm RemMag, which will allow it to be used in a lighter rifle, and have less muzzleblast. __________________ ------------------------------------------- Cut along dotted line, discard top part.

10-03-2011, 09:21 PM	#3
10 Bears Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: E-Da-How Posts: 137,846	Welll........ I've been a Thirtyphukinaughtsix fan most all my adult hunting life. But, the last 30-40 years I've come to admire the .270 Win. My current Remington BDL has harvested five, three at one stand. All five were Mule Deer and worth the shot. Never more than one shot and they went down to stay. Granted, all five shots were under 100 yards. All that said, I haven't seriously been hunting in 15 years. I know I wouldn't do any hiking, would have to be from the ATV. Some places don't allow that. In reality? I'm thinkin' I should just stick to dreamin'. I know better than to think I could go hunting and NOT be packed out. Oh yeah, back to Elk, I wouldn't hesitate to take an elk with the .270 either.

10-03-2011, 10:09 PM	#5
Desert Rat Junior Woodchuck Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 4,592	I have a friend in Canada who used to guide hunters, etc. His elk rifle was the 270 and took damn near 70 of them. He finally got a 7mm Mag and said it wasn't a lick better. Like 10B, I've been a 30/06 guy all my life. But since I got a 270 about 10 years ago, I've become total believer in what this gun will do. Also, 5K, you'll get less recoil, which may be very important to you. And, by the way, my Canadian friend who used the 270 for decades, tells me his bullet of choice was 130 gr. Only elk he ever had trouble getting was shot with Nosler through both sides of ribs and gave pitiful expansion. 130 gr sounds a little light but you can argue with results...and 130 grs is heavier than anything a 243 is throwing at them. I shoot 130 gr almost exclusively in my 270 and find it very fast, flat and pleasant to shoot. This would be my recommendation.

10-04-2011, 01:44 AM	#6
5knives KaBoom Kontrol Modulator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado, Western Slope Posts: 16,229	Thanks for the comments and experience gentlemen! Much appreciated. Checking the WEB for other opinions, and finally looking closely , err, make that very closely at the ballistics tables, I think either one of my 7-08's will do just fine on Elk. You get out to 300 yards or so and the better S.D and B.C of the 7mm bullet starts to show. Makes sense as the 7-08 is really a 7x57 and that's in the 270, 30-06 class to begin with. And the 7mm mag is really in the same category (gotta look at 'em all in relation to the actual bbl lengths in use. In short it looks like the 20" bbl on my model seven is on the light side but with the 24" bbl on the Encore I've got plenty good 'power'. After all just a few yards in range estimation, at distance, turns a 7mag into a 7x57 and vice versa. Couldn't find anyone, except for the usual suspects infected with terminal Magnumitis that didn't feel it was adequate under 200 yards. Figure 100-150 fps gain or loss at the muzzle for every inch plus or minus what the round was chronographed at. For cartridges in this general class that is. Plus Elk are normally hunted at elevation and the B.C gets better with altitude, thinner air makes for flater trajectory. I'm guessing that anything in this class would benefit from partition, bonded, X frame i.e premium truly controlled expansion designs for both reliable penetration and expansion. Guess the real answer is the same as always, placing a bullet capable of penetration to the vitals, where it's supposed to go. Looks like a 7-08 can do that. Regards, ...

10-04-2011, 08:52 AM	#8
Sanders Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 66,511	After studying some on the Co. Game and Fish website, it looks like Meeker is a good area to hunt. I've never been to Meeker, so I don't know what the terrain is like, but it looks like lots of public land. http://wildlife.state.co.us/Pages/Home.aspx

10-04-2011, 10:33 AM	#9
Rew Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 9,710	7/08 should do just fine. Lot of elk have been taken with a .243 and it is simply a .308 necked to 6mm, the 7/08 is just a .308 not necked down as far. Besides like you said elk were taken with that new high powered .30-30 after 1894 and 44-40's before that. I took one in dark thick timber where I really couldn't use the scoped 06 I had slung, I swear that thing came out from under my feet, it was bedded down, the S&W 29's front sight swung to just behind the shoulder on a slightly angled elk and fired. It took two more running steps and dropped. That's when I realized I had the gun in my hand and the holster was empty.

11-14-2011, 09:26 PM	#13
Sanders Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 66,511	Colorado Dept. of Wildlife's "Elk Hunting University". http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/...ssons2011.aspx

11-14-2011, 09:29 PM	#14
Sanders Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 66,511	From the Sept/Oct issue of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation's "Bugle" magazine: Colorado Elk Population: 283,400 Bull/Cow Ratio: 32/100 Nonresidents: cow $354; any elk: $554 Hunter success: 22 percent

12-26-2011, 03:06 PM	#15
bounce Senile Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 7310 ft .002 mach :N AZ Posts: 2,463	the Game Rifle is a good book