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Old 01-01-2018, 10:48 AM   #16
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Capstick's tales were mostly fabricated. A 12 gauge with buckshot is HIGHLY DISFAVORED for lion medicine and is in fact illegal in all countries where lions are hunted. Legal rounds are .375 H&H rifle and up. Shotguns lack the velocity to deliver either shock or good penetration (same problem with handguns). Shotguns with pellets of any size face the problem that each pellet is relatively light so penetration is poor unless shot at point blank range where the pellets arrive as a solid blob. And then the disadvantage is that the projectile blob is delivered at 1000 less than rifles can offer.

Feline nervous systems tend to be incapacitated by shock of a bullet that hits them at 2400 fps or more.

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Well, ....... I know Peter Hathaway Capstick (A man who would have known!) only used a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with double 00 buckshot in order to track wounded 500 lb lions through heavy brush in order to finish them off. Capstick said that these engagements always happened very fast, and took place at very close range. (15 feet, and often less!)

Capstick wrote that the only gun he trusted to hit hard enough to stop an enraged cat under those incredibly difficult circumstances was the 12 gauge; HOWEVER, there is a proviso: The animal has to be fired upon at very close range (often less than 6 - 12 feet) with the still tightly compacted FULL 12 gauge charge of double 00 buckshot. Anything less would NOT guarantee an 'on the spot' stop and kill.

Peter (Who I, coincidentally, knew and used to see around town just about every weekend when I was a young teenager.) never allowed a client who made a bad shot on a lion to attempt to follow the animal into the brush in order to finish it off; he always told the client to stay put and wait while he took out his 12 gauge, and very slowly moved through the brush waiting for the wounded cat to launch what he hoped would be its final surprise attack.

I've also watched several national park rangers trap and release large bears. They, also, carried 12 gauge shotguns that I was told would, if necessary, have been used in exactly the same way that Peter Capstick did. All this being said I honestly believe that most people seen carrying 12 gauge shotguns in bear territory are being expedient.

In my opinion very few people have the 'nerves of steel' and 'coldness of mind' needed in order to face down a charging bear and effectively put it down at the kind of very short range needed in order to make the shot charge hit with a full (practically instantaneous) effect. Personally, I think the smallest long arm I would want to attempt stopping a large incoming bear with would be a (heavy) 45-70 Gov't, or Marlin 450 carbine.
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:57 AM   #17
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I bet the use shotguns because they are cheap ($250 instead of $1500),
as well as out of ignorance.

There were tales of Eskimos using .22 Hornet for polar bear. They used it because it was what they had, not because it was ideal.

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The Largest Land Carnivores in the World: The Polar Bear and Kodiak Bear.

http://twistedsifter.com/2012/04/15-...-in-the-world/

O.K. so I am watching the Netflix series "Polar Bear Town" a show about them in Alaska. Police, game wardens, locals, scientists, tour guides almost all to a man was carrying a .12 gauge shotgun for protection?
So I guess if one is attacking you you shoot them in the face? What would you carry if in their A.O.?

ADD: Everyone in the small town leaves their cars and trucks unlocked. This so people can jump in if getting chased by a polar bear. Holy sheet.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:41 AM   #18
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Oh I am sure in a lot of cases you are 100% correct on all they can afford 500grains. The Netflix series "Life Below Zero" shows an Eskimo mother who hunts everything with an old beat up and I mean beat to hell Mosin-nagant.
Not that the Mosin will not do the job but his thing is held together with duct-tape.
Interesting though that even L.O.s had shotguns also? Maybe their not hunting the bears but just trying to scare them off? But a shotgun with that Brenekke slug appears to be a damn formidable weapon? I don't know my Polar bear hunting days are long gone. I will watch from the living room.
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Old 01-01-2018, 04:47 PM   #19
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.375 Hollands and a companion similarly armed.
I would agree I have one ruger 1 and it is a thumper
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Old 01-01-2018, 06:30 PM   #20
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Capstick's tales were mostly fabricated. A 12 gauge with buckshot is HIGHLY DISFAVORED for lion medicine and is in fact illegal in all countries where lions are hunted. Legal rounds are .375 H&H rifle and up. Shotguns lack the velocity to deliver either shock or good penetration (same problem with handguns). Shotguns with pellets of any size face the problem that each pellet is relatively light so penetration is poor unless shot at point blank range where the pellets arrive as a solid blob. And then the disadvantage is that the projectile blob is delivered at 1000 less than rifles can offer.

Feline nervous systems tend to be incapacitated by shock of a bullet that hits them at 2400 fps or more.
While it is true that Capstick DID embellish his tales with other professional hunter's stories Stories he, himself, admitted he'd heard while working at the 'Duck Inn' in Mauhn, Botswana when he was new to Africa and waiting to get his first guide's license at the same time it is important to realize which incidents he actually took part in, and which incidents he is merely relating for the sake of selling books and penning a good tale!

In Capstick's day 12 gauge shotguns were NOT illegal to use. Today, though, is another story. Because some of Capstick's adventures are documented with photographs I'm inclined to believe him when he says that, on more than one occasion, he followed wounded lions into thick brush with a 12 gauge shotgun and buckshot in his hands. He, also, relates stories about using this combination at very close range. (Mere feet!)

I've, also, watched national park rangers using shotguns in exactly the same way that Capstick says he did. When I knew him, Peter wasn't a liar; something of a loner, perhaps, but nobody thought of him as a liar. The man had books to sell; and he needed to make them entertaining He did!

Sometimes he told other hunters stories; sometimes he told his own; and, yes, I'm sure that, on occasion, sometimes he embellished them, too; but to deliberately lie about using a shotgun at close range on lions? No, I do not think Peter would have done that. (Peer group pressure and all!) From the 'end of the hunt' pictures I've seen, I'm inclined to believe that if Capstick says he finished off lions with a 12 gauge shotgun at 3 or 4 feet of distance then, yes, that is what he did.

When the bloody and hard-fought Rhodesian war broke out, Peter voluntarily continued to live in his remote backcountry hut in order to help protect the local villagers he knew in the area. In my experience personal courage, and outrageous fairytales are seldom generated by the same man. Nuff said!
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:47 PM   #21
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I think we can put Capstick in the same category with talented authors Larry McMurty and Cormac McCarthy.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:27 PM   #22
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"The truly dangerous man dresses inconspicuously and is soft- spoken. He walks away from most confrontations. The only time you learn that the truly dangerous man is mad at you is a split second before you die, for he never fights. He only kills. The truly dangerous man knows that fighting is what children do and killing is what men do." - Charley Reese 1986
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:09 PM   #23
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I have never shot a polar bear, but do know that government employees working on Spitsbergen use bolt rifles in 308win. and 30-06 for self defence. For the most last Mauser M98s or Ruger M77s (since they are available in stainless).
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:11 PM   #24
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In a bear attack I would prefer to have bear spray.

Bear spray will stop an attack quicker than a firearm.

If you are within 40-50 feet of an attacking bear it is unlikely you can stop it with a firearm before he can get to you. But bear spray will turn him around.

There are many articles on the subject. Here is one from Field & Stream. https://www.fieldandstream.com/artic...arging-grizzly

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The results? Bear spray, when properly used, halted aggressive bear behavior in 92 percent of the cases. Of the 175 people involved in the bear-spray encounters, only three were injured and none required hospitalization. Wind interfered with the spray in only five incidents, and in no case, stresses Smith, did it fail to reach the target. Twelve users reported irritation from the spray, but the irritation was minor in all but two instances. And in the 71 encounters when bear spray was used, not once did the can malfunction.

By comparison, Smith's examination of the use of firearms in hundreds of bear encounters shows that bullets deterred a charge just two-thirds of the time, and that it takes an average of four shots to stop a bear. “A bear attack is a surprise encounter,” Smith says. “Most charges start from only a few yards away. A hunter with his rifle slung is nothing more than a hiker with a stick of steel on his back.”
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Old 03-10-2018, 10:09 PM   #25
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The 22lr pistol and a cripple you can outrun.
A 458 WM to be serious.
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Old 03-11-2018, 07:14 AM   #26
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12 gauge flash bangs to scare them off is what I remember seeing on a show.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:08 PM   #27
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Give me my bullwhip, a chair.. and my trunk monkey.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:30 PM   #28
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The best thing to have for a polar bear attack is a democunt human shield.
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:22 AM   #29
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Wife and I encountered a black bear a week ago while hiking on State land. It was about 20 yards away. We turned and got the hell out of there. Our two dogs behaved perfectly and came back to us as soon as my wife called them. My .38 revolver felt very small.

The bear didn't even look up at us. He couldn't care less. It was a good learning experience. Next time, we'll be more careful.
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Old 08-21-2018, 05:54 PM   #30
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The bear didn't even look up at us. He couldn't care less. It was a good learning experience. Next time, we'll be more careful.
You can put bells on the dogs. Bear will hear you coming and move off.
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