My "other" 9mm carbine - 350 Legend

Sanders · 05-03-2020, 11:31 AM

Before Christmas, last year, I decided to delve into this new cartridge. It looked really interesting to me, as it was not expensive to get in to and takes the AR-15 to a different level. As it is right now, I have under $300 into this build on an existing Rock River Arsenal lower.

The upper is from Bear Creek Arsenal, who also manufacture the uppers for Midway USA under the Armalite name. The 16" complete upper assembly set me back just over $200 after using a coupon code during a Christmas sale.

Before the current insanity, I was buying ammo off the shelf at Cabela's for $10.00/20 for the Winchester 147 gr. FMJ. Hunting ammo by various makers was typically priced from $20-$30 per box. What I like to do with a new caliber is shoot a couple hundred rounds of factory ammo, then set about to reloading. Starline is making cases, and Winchester is also selling them. Reports are the Starline cases work better, as they are slightly thinner and allow better feeding. The case itself looks like a .223 case with the bottleneck blown straight.

The 350 Legend factory ammo uses a .355 (or 9mm) bullet. You can load up to .357 in it, to play around with some pretty interesting loadings. Your typical .35 caliber rifle bullets, though, are .358. You have to either resize your bullets (usually to .356) or rebarrel to .358 Legend, which some guys are doing to take advantage of the wide variety of .358 rifle bullets.

Winchester says the round was designed primarily for folks in the states that do not allow bottle neck cartridges to be used for hunting. Okay, if that's their story, they can stick to it. The power this puts out is comparable to .30-30 and 7.62x39. Ballisticswise, it is similar to the 30-30. It is pretty much a 200-250 yard round. Folks have been taking deer with one-shot drops to 250 yards pretty regularly.

Reloaders have worked up 180 gr. loads that do 1 MOA out of a 12.5" "pistol". Heavy subsonic rounds are also something folks have worked up.

Does this fill a niche I had that needed filling? Not really, unless you count that it is quite a thumper in a small package. I can go big game hunting with an AR-15 standard configuration rifle with confidence. This is also a fine hog round.

There are now reliable 20 round mags. It is also very easy to convert 30 round PMags to 350 Legend mags by removing the forward rib.

So far, with only 200 rounds through it at short range (25-80 yards), and all offhand, I've found it to be accurate, reliable and hard hitting with no more noticeable recoil than with a 5.56 round. The only stoppages I've had were caused by my cheap brass catcher. Didn't want to lose any brass in the snow and mud. My costs are going to go up when I purchase reloading dies and such for it, though. But that will go down in the long run.

Here is a pretty comprehensive video from someone who has done a lot of testing on this round in a $1,000+ AR-15.

thefundamentalist · 05-03-2020, 01:27 PM

Looks interesting, Sanders. Thanks for the info.

ashhoe · 05-03-2020, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanders

There are now reliable 20 round mags. It is also very easy to convert 30 round PMags to 350 Legend mags by removing the forward rib.

I don't know about a forward rib but you'll for sure have to remove the ribs on either side.
Not a deal breaker but it's a chore, I was doing this years ago for the 357AR that moleman cooked up.
Also keep in mind that the bullet is actually too small to meet some states straight wall pistol cartridge laws, Ohio being one if I remember correctly.
Is the law going to pull and measure a bullet? Probably not but when they want you, they get you.

Sanders · 05-04-2020, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashhoe

I don't know about a forward rib but you'll for sure have to remove the ribs on either side.
Not a deal breaker but it's a chore, I was doing this years ago for the 357AR that moleman cooked up.
Also keep in mind that the bullet is actually too small to meet some states straight wall pistol cartridge laws, Ohio being one if I remember correctly.
Is the law going to pull and measure a bullet? Probably not but when they want you, they get you.

SAAMI specs call for a bullet that is ".357 -2" to make it legal in Ohio. Yeah, sounds pretty hinky, but that's what got it approved for Ohio. I guess that means the bullet can be .357, .356, or .355 to be considered a 350 Legend.

ashhoe · 05-05-2020, 03:29 AM

I don't hunt Ohio so it's been a minute since I looked this up but this is what I remember from The high road.

"At first blush it would seem that 350 Legend would be legal. And I admit that from the first I assumed 350 Legend would be legal in Ohio but at the NRA show I stopped by the Winchester booth and was talking to a Winchester representative there about the 350 Legend. In the course of the conversation I asked specifically what diameter bullet the 350 Legend used and he replied, "9mm". I followed that question up and asked him specifically," You mean it uses a .355 diameter bullet rather than a .357 diameter bullet" and he replied in the affirmative.

Now you would think .002 inch would not be a big deal but the regulation for legal handgun cartridge in Ohio reads with very similar language: "With 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger." In the case of handguns several years ago I called the ODNR office and talked to an officer about this regulation and asked if it would be legal to hunt deer with a 9x19mm handgun and was told it would not be legal. I asked him if a 38 Special handgun would be legal and he replied it would be. He indicated that the .357 caliber was very specific and was why 38 Special was legal and 9mm was not. So at least at that point in time when Ohio said .357 or larger than meant that very specifically"

I guess a statement right from the Ohio DNR clears it up though.

500grains · 05-29-2020, 01:01 AM

350 legend pushes 150 grain bullets to 2300 fps.

Like a 30-30.

Plenty good for deer and for rioting Target shoppers in Minneapolis.

Sanders · 06-01-2020, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 500grains

350 legend pushes 150 grain bullets to 2300 fps.

Like a 30-30.

Plenty good for deer and for rioting Target shoppers in Minneapolis.

I would be packing it now, but I didn't stock up on ammo for it like I should have. I wouldn't want to face a mob without at least 6-7 mags full of ammo.

Winchester assures me they are cranking out ammo as fast as they can. I just haven't seen the affordable stuff in stock anywhere, yet. (I was giving them crap on Twitter and they got their feelings hurt.

)

Sanders · 06-11-2020, 04:30 PM

Is The 350 Legend Accurate At 415 Yards?

https://youtu.be/1R8ds9IRbMc

05-03-2020, 11:31 AM	#1
Sanders Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 66,449	My "other" 9mm carbine - 350 Legend Before Christmas, last year, I decided to delve into this new cartridge. It looked really interesting to me, as it was not expensive to get in to and takes the AR-15 to a different level. As it is right now, I have under $300 into this build on an existing Rock River Arsenal lower. The upper is from Bear Creek Arsenal, who also manufacture the uppers for Midway USA under the Armalite name. The 16" complete upper assembly set me back just over $200 after using a coupon code during a Christmas sale. Before the current insanity, I was buying ammo off the shelf at Cabela's for $10.00/20 for the Winchester 147 gr. FMJ. Hunting ammo by various makers was typically priced from $20-$30 per box. What I like to do with a new caliber is shoot a couple hundred rounds of factory ammo, then set about to reloading. Starline is making cases, and Winchester is also selling them. Reports are the Starline cases work better, as they are slightly thinner and allow better feeding. The case itself looks like a .223 case with the bottleneck blown straight. The 350 Legend factory ammo uses a .355 (or 9mm) bullet. You can load up to .357 in it, to play around with some pretty interesting loadings. Your typical .35 caliber rifle bullets, though, are .358. You have to either resize your bullets (usually to .356) or rebarrel to .358 Legend, which some guys are doing to take advantage of the wide variety of .358 rifle bullets. Winchester says the round was designed primarily for folks in the states that do not allow bottle neck cartridges to be used for hunting. Okay, if that's their story, they can stick to it. The power this puts out is comparable to .30-30 and 7.62x39. Ballisticswise, it is similar to the 30-30. It is pretty much a 200-250 yard round. Folks have been taking deer with one-shot drops to 250 yards pretty regularly. Reloaders have worked up 180 gr. loads that do 1 MOA out of a 12.5" "pistol". Heavy subsonic rounds are also something folks have worked up. Does this fill a niche I had that needed filling? Not really, unless you count that it is quite a thumper in a small package. I can go big game hunting with an AR-15 standard configuration rifle with confidence. This is also a fine hog round. There are now reliable 20 round mags. It is also very easy to convert 30 round PMags to 350 Legend mags by removing the forward rib. So far, with only 200 rounds through it at short range (25-80 yards), and all offhand, I've found it to be accurate, reliable and hard hitting with no more noticeable recoil than with a 5.56 round. The only stoppages I've had were caused by my cheap brass catcher. Didn't want to lose any brass in the snow and mud. My costs are going to go up when I purchase reloading dies and such for it, though. But that will go down in the long run. Here is a pretty comprehensive video from someone who has done a lot of testing on this round in a $1,000+ AR-15. __________________ "The truly dangerous man dresses inconspicuously and is soft- spoken. He walks away from most confrontations. The only time you learn that the truly dangerous man is mad at you is a split second before you die, for he never fights. He only kills. The truly dangerous man knows that fighting is what children do and killing is what men do." - Charley Reese 1986 3

05-29-2020, 01:01 AM	#6
500grains Soldier of Allah Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Crackerland Posts: 31,662	350 legend pushes 150 grain bullets to 2300 fps. Like a 30-30. Plenty good for deer and for rioting Target shoppers in Minneapolis. __________________ Racism will keep you alive.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

05-03-2020, 01:27 PM	#2
thefundamentalist Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 10,887	Looks interesting, Sanders. Thanks for the info.

05-05-2020, 03:29 AM	#5
ashhoe Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 441	I don't hunt Ohio so it's been a minute since I looked this up but this is what I remember from The high road. "At first blush it would seem that 350 Legend would be legal. And I admit that from the first I assumed 350 Legend would be legal in Ohio but at the NRA show I stopped by the Winchester booth and was talking to a Winchester representative there about the 350 Legend. In the course of the conversation I asked specifically what diameter bullet the 350 Legend used and he replied, "9mm". I followed that question up and asked him specifically," You mean it uses a .355 diameter bullet rather than a .357 diameter bullet" and he replied in the affirmative. Now you would think .002 inch would not be a big deal but the regulation for legal handgun cartridge in Ohio reads with very similar language: "With 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger." In the case of handguns several years ago I called the ODNR office and talked to an officer about this regulation and asked if it would be legal to hunt deer with a 9x19mm handgun and was told it would not be legal. I asked him if a 38 Special handgun would be legal and he replied it would be. He indicated that the .357 caliber was very specific and was why 38 Special was legal and 9mm was not. So at least at that point in time when Ohio said .357 or larger than meant that very specifically" I guess a statement right from the Ohio DNR clears it up though.

06-11-2020, 04:30 PM	#8
Sanders Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 66,449	Is The 350 Legend Accurate At 415 Yards? https://youtu.be/1R8ds9IRbMc