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Old 07-30-2017, 12:47 PM   #1
Bluntforce
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Question Problem(s) with forgiveness

I have three issue to overcome before I could become a Christian. If Diesel reads this I would be very thankful for your input because approaching Christianity without an understanding of it's Judaic roots is folly.

I have three problems with forgiveness and forgiveness is only one of my issues preventing me from Christianity. The other two are loving your enemy and spreading the Gospel (If I don't understand Aramaic, Greek, Latin, German, Middle English to say nothing of Hebrew, the Source Language how can I presume confidence in what I say? I believe it is insulting to accost unbidden presumably innocent bystanders with my American Standard version of Truth.)

1. Is forgiving a form of approving the past wrong?

2. Is forgiving making the statement that your eye is not worth their eye?

3. Does forgiving invite future wrongs?

The loving your enemy Command is at best an attempt to "fix" someone else from outside. One will not get better until they allow themselves to improve. Until then it is best to view them as proactive/reactive obstacles of unpredictable danger and proceed with vigilance and willingness to remove their animating force from their physical manifestation.
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:34 PM   #2
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First of all, Jesus tells us, "There is none righteous, no, not one."

So, you aren't getting into Heaven on your good works. That said, Jesus forgives what we've done if we ask Him and try to go and sin no more - as he told the prostitute he forgave.

He expects us to try, at least. He doesn't give us a free pass to do whatever we want for as long as we want and expect him to forgive us each and every time.

Anyway, your question(s) are the subject of many a sermon, and many books.

I am no perfect Christian, so my advice may be dismissed or taken to heart. If I'm wrong, I'm sure folks will correct me.

To me, the act of forgiveness is not so much to say what someone did to you is all right. To me, it is to quit allowing them to live in your head rent free over what they did to you. If you dwell on how you were wronged all the time, you grow to hate that person. We are told not to hate - hate hurts your heart and spirit. You aren't doing anything to them, but you are hurting your own well-being by not allowing yourself any peace.

So, how do I forgive someone? I can forgive, but it doesn't mean I have to forget. It doesn't mean I have to trust that person again, as if nothing ever happened. I can even love them, but that doesn't mean I have to like them nor trust them.

So, for me it comes down to apathy. I just don't care about the person who screwed me over. I don't let them live rent free in my head, at all. I just don't care about them, whether they live, die, have good luck or bad. They no longer matter to me in the least. Right or wrong? I don't know, but it put my heart at peace.
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Old 07-31-2017, 12:02 AM   #3
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To me, the act of forgiveness is not so much to say what someone did to you is all right. To me, it is to quit allowing them to live in your head rent free over what they did to you. If you dwell on how you were wronged all the time, you grow to hate that person. We are told not to hate - hate hurts your heart and spirit. You aren't doing anything to them, but you are hurting your own well-being by not allowing yourself any peace.
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Old 07-31-2017, 12:18 AM   #4
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That is what I had aspired to (apathy) and mostly achieved, then I run into them again. Soon I will move. Don't want to but scum follows as steel to magnet.

Forgetting worked for me but the scum of transgressions past keeps existing in my sight. Now I'm being reminded of far away and long ago idjitations by scum unseen in decades and that rubs spiritual development in the wrong direction.

Forgetting was a one step process, I don't mind because you don't matter.

Forgiving is three steps, making a huge investment in letting go of primal survival drives, dealing with the continued existence of the source of the response and remembering that you have let go of those responses when you encounter or are reminded of them.

Remembering you dropped it is much harder than forgetting the person.

Tricking the mind is easy but fragile.

Overriding instinct punches you right in the DNA.
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Old 07-31-2017, 02:05 AM   #5
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Bluntforce... I too have to carry the ghost

from the past with me...people that have

made transgressions against me that are

unforgivable...and a few of them I run into

about everyday and I am not in the position

to be able to settle the matter anymore ...

The day will come though, and I will deal

with them then...

But forgive, no I do not have it in me to

forgive nor forget as all scores need settled

Am I less of a person because I can't forgive?

That is not for me to decide, and I don't care

one way or another...I do what I feel is right


When someone does you an injustice, suddenly

they don't like you anymore


Remember when someone earns your ire

they are the one that deserves it
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Old 07-31-2017, 02:25 AM   #6
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Many here, I am sure, carry the ghosts of our past. Sander's story and mine share many similarity's. But WE, all of us, must work through them or it will tear us all apart. For me, I have put much of the past into a box in my mind that I try not to open. But that is just me. The Bible has many lessons for us to follow to be better people.
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Old 07-31-2017, 07:17 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bluntforce View Post
I have three issue to overcome before I could become a Christian. If Diesel reads this I would be very thankful for your input because approaching Christianity without an understanding of it's Judaic roots is folly.

I have three problems with forgiveness and forgiveness is only one of my issues preventing me from Christianity. The other two are loving your enemy and spreading the Gospel (If I don't understand Aramaic, Greek, Latin, German, Middle English to say nothing of Hebrew, the Source Language how can I presume confidence in what I say? I believe it is insulting to accost unbidden presumably innocent bystanders with my American Standard version of Truth.)

1. Is forgiving a form of approving the past wrong?

2. Is forgiving making the statement that your eye is not worth their eye?

3. Does forgiving invite future wrongs?

The loving your enemy Command is at best an attempt to "fix" someone else from outside. One will not get better until they allow themselves to improve. Until then it is best to view them as proactive/reactive obstacles of unpredictable danger and proceed with vigilance and willingness to remove their animating force from their physical manifestation.
When a man becomes a Christian, he is not left without the help of God to become more like Christ. One of my favourite verses is this:

Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.


This passage tells me that as I do my bit, He not only makes me willing but also makes me able to do that which pleases Him. We therefore come to Him as we are but do not remain that way. He helps us to love and forgive etc. As far as spreading the Gospel is concerned, more and better is done without words than with. It comes with the territory of the new life. 1 Peter 3:15 says that we should always be ready to give the reason for the hope that we have – when people ask. So, most times, unless people ask, I don’t tell. Can’t stand people shoving their beliefs down other people’s throats.

If I may pass an opinion on your three points,


1. Forgiveness from a Christian perspective is about passing on the same grace given to you by God to others who have wronged you. God forgives you therefore you aught forgive others. It is by no means an approval of the wrongs done against you but more so a releasing of the guilty party by pardon. Consider Jesus’ story in Mat 18:23-34

2. Forgiving does not devalue the sin done against you or devalue you, it is an extension of grace and mercy.

3. Possibly, but we are not instructed to forgive and ”forget”, actions always have consequences. I might forgive someone but I am not going t o willingly put myself in a position where I have to keep on forgiving them for the same thing over and over if the matter brings me pain and or grief.

Loving your enemy is more about you than him, it sets you free from the negative effects of hatred, bitterness etc.

Anyhow, that’s how I see it, hope it helps some.
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Old 07-31-2017, 01:40 PM   #8
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To me, the act of forgiveness is not so much to say what someone did to you is all right. To me, it is to quit allowing them to live in your head rent free over what they did to you. If you dwell on how you were wronged all the time, you grow to hate that person. We are told not to hate - hate hurts your heart and spirit. You aren't doing anything to them, but you are hurting your own well-being by not allowing yourself any peace.
that's how i see it.

as i got older I learned to take a minute and see things from a certain point of view- as to why someone did what they did, most of the time it's poor decision making, for some people it's the only way to express their self hate.

I basically stay away from anyone that I doubt anymore, they aren't worth my time.
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Old 08-01-2017, 01:01 AM   #9
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This has been very helpful, than you all for your answers.
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Old 08-01-2017, 08:37 PM   #10
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My Bible states: "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Probably not the full quote, but the important part is "ALL have sinned". Every single one of us.

Jesus came to fulfill the law, that is why we are not knee deep in ritual sacrifices all day. Jesus took our sin on himself, no more "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", although I gotta say, I would like to do that at times my self.

Go to your local library and see if they have (or can get) "The Tears of Tammy Fay". Yes, THAT Tammy Fay. It is a real tear jerker (no I am not being sarcastic, it truly is moving) and is the "untold story" that everyone thinks they know that they never knew. Want to talk about someone who got screwed over? You don't know a third of the story, and hearing her talk about how she had to forgive those people, not for their sakes, but hers is amazingly moving.

1. Is forgiving a form of approving the past wrong?

No, you are not approving of past wrongs, you, me, EVERYONE has a past and past wrongs. You are forgiving them for YOUR sake, not theirs. Some people never forgave Chuck Manson for what he did. Do you think that Charlie cares what they think of him? No. But it is eating them alive everyday. They need to forgive Charlies for THEIR sake, so it quits hurting them, because it sure doesn't bother Charlie.

I am not saying "forget". I will never forget what my brother and his second wife did to me and our Mother, I will never trust him again as he feels what he did was fully justified and refuses to repent, but I forgave him. My being pissed didn't bother him at all, but it ate me up. Even now, typing this, I still feel the anger starting, but I am willing to let God deal with my brother in His own good time.

2. Is forgiving making the statement that your eye is not worth their eye?

Again no, forgiving is not forgetting. Jesus took the whole of the Law on Himself as the blood sacrifice for all our sins. This is why we are not sacrificing a lamb, ox, goat, whatever, six days a week to use the blood to cover our sins. Jesus' blood covered out sins, but when we sin, he feels the blow. "By His stripes we are healed." Jesus said "I have not come to cancel the law, but to fulfill it." It is His eye and His tooth that covers our need for "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

3. Does forgiving invite future wrongs?

Again, no. Did you forgive your child for doing something wrong or kept punishing them everyday for it? Your pet made a mess on the floor. Did you punish the pet and then forgive them for it? Or do you keep punishing your child or pet every day for the wrong they did? Forgiveness is letting go of anger so YOU can heal from the effects that anger is doing to you, not saying "Well feel free to go out and do that again!" It is moving on, not staying in one place.

I'm running out of time. Got to Anchored In Faith on YouTube and watch Pastor John Honn, he was one of the greats and talked about all of this.

Last edited by Legion489; 08-01-2017 at 11:41 PM. Reason: misspelled words, puntuation
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:31 PM   #11
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You are forgiving them for YOUR sake, not theirs
That's exactly what I was going to write
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:46 AM   #12
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Resentments carried from long ago will eat at your very soul.

Forgiveness will relieve you of those resentments if given freely and sincerely.

Forgiveness does not absolve the offender from his transgressions.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:58 AM   #13
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Rick, very well stated, sir.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bluntforce View Post
I have three issue to overcome before I could become a Christian. If Diesel reads this I would be very thankful for your input because approaching Christianity without an understanding of it's Judaic roots is folly.

I have three problems with forgiveness and forgiveness is only one of my issues preventing me from Christianity. The other two are loving your enemy and spreading the Gospel (If I don't understand Aramaic, Greek, Latin, German, Middle English to say nothing of Hebrew, the Source Language how can I presume confidence in what I say? I believe it is insulting to accost unbidden presumably innocent bystanders with my American Standard version of Truth.)

1. Is forgiving a form of approving the past wrong?

2. Is forgiving making the statement that your eye is not worth their eye?

3. Does forgiving invite future wrongs?

The loving your enemy Command is at best an attempt to "fix" someone else from outside. One will not get better until they allow themselves to improve. Until then it is best to view them as proactive/reactive obstacles of unpredictable danger and proceed with vigilance and willingness to remove their animating force from their physical manifestation.
There is no such thing as an approval for past wrongs. You completely miss the parable of an eye for an eye. And no forgiveness has nothing to do with future wrongs. All sins are equal in God's eyes. If you steal a penny or a million dollars, If you hurt or kill someone, if you are Gay or think these things that are sins in God's eyes you are guilty. God forgives all but you must do more than ask his forgiveness. One must Pray and strive to be one with God.
Once saved is not always saved. God wants nothing more than to have us with him in heaven when he comes. The Bible is very clear that when you die you do not go to heaven. If you study the Bible daily you will find that so many things that many things Christians believe are wrong. That is not to say that Christians are not good people but in the way of the world 90% follow and do not find out for them selves. It is easier to believe what one is told than to find the real truth for yourself. God forgives us. Who are we not to forgive others. He sets the example. We do not need to like the sinner or wrong deeds but God will forgive that person. If you don't Satin will let the anger and hate fester in your heart and destroy your soul. Do not judge people in any church. You will find things you do not like. The entire point of church and being a Christian is to strive together to be one with Christ who die for our sins. It is a never ending part of being a Christian. It is pure joy serving God. You will find nothing but piece, love and a greater understanding that you ever dreamed you could find. You can not forgive your way to heaven. You can not get there by works. Only by the grace of God. I know this is only touching on the subject. It takes a life time of study and devotion. The more time you spend with God leading your life the happier you will become.

It is easy to believe the News Media which do not report the news. They create the news and tell their feelings which have nothing to do at all with most stories. Let me put it this way. You can not be a Christian and be a Liberal. God does not compromise. Once you move away form God you serve Satin. That is a no brainer in my book. The left takes religion and God out of everything and as our society becomes more Godless there is more moral decay. God does not go against Himself. With the moral Decay comes more crime and who is to blame? The left is causing all the problems. The democrats blame those that love and respect God. It is the left that cerates all the hate, anger, greed, envy. They literally hate God and any moral authority.
I suggest you get a little book called Steps to Christ It is not trying to convert you to any religion. it will explain Gods plan for us and how we are to become close to Him. God is our creator. Our Creator will never harm us. It is not God's will. If you would like a copy drop me an address and I will send you a copy on my own dime. I have about 30 copies left if anyone wants one. Next to the Bible it is the best read you will experience. Everything in it is backed up by Bible verses and passages. It is not conjecture.
With love and prayers may this help you.
Richard
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:23 AM   #15
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"Steps to Christ" is written by the false prophetess Ellen G White of the 7th Day Adventist cult that teaches the Mark of the Beast is going to church on Sunday. I'd avoid anything doctrinal from the Adventists like the plagues of Egypt. Nice people though.
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