.460 Rowland

Thanatos · 12-15-2012, 02:48 PM

Since I sold my Kimber about a year ago when I was offered a stupid amount of money for it, and the guy wanted it returned to .45acp before he bought it... I pulled out the Clarks .460 Rowland comped barrel. Went looking for another Kimber last summer only to find... stupid price tags on them. Not willing to pay grand theft pricing... I checked Brownells for pricing on slides and frames, since I was going to replace everything else, anyway... Found pretty good pricing on the Les Baer slides and frames, and ordered the pair, along with every other part necessary to build it.

Then, out of curiosity, I took a look at the pricing on the Caspian slides and frames... a couple hundred dollarws less. Ordered another slide and frame.

Am now building a pair of .460 Rowlands, one on the Les Baer, the other on the Caspian. The Les Baer will have fiber optic sights; the Caspian is getting a Weigand optics mount and will be wearing a frame mounted red dot.

Surporised me at the time required to fit the slides to the frames - Les Baer told me on the phone about 16 hours. He was right. Mr. Dremel is on vacation; all of this detail work is done with files. And it is time consuming. But... this is about the tightest, slickest frame/slide mating that I have ever found.

Photos show current state of extremely slow progress.

Hunter07 · 12-15-2012, 03:54 PM

Lookin' good so far!

500grains · 12-17-2012, 10:35 AM

The thought of the recoil makes my wrist hurt!

10 Bears · 12-17-2012, 10:52 AM

Good luck with optics on that one.

Thanatos · 12-17-2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 500grains

The thought of the recoil makes my wrist hurt!

Actually... that is one of the aspects of the .460 Rowland that I enjoy the best...

Although it has more energy than CURRENT off the shelf .44 RemMag (not to be confused with the offerings back in the 1960s), it shoots as soft as .45acp hardball. Thing is a pussycat to shoot... at least the Kimber that I previously converted was. That comp on the end of the barrel actually does its job! That and the 24# recoil spring.

Even when tipping the AA7 can enough to get the 185 grn Nosler hollowpoints approaching 1600 fps... this .460 Rowland is a JOY to shoot. Absolutely NOTHING like my 500 S&W! And should not be confused with the .460 S&W...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 Bears

Good luck with optics on that one.

One can always hope, right?

The fact that the optic will be mounted to the frame rather than the slide should greatly limit the abuse to the optic.
My uncle used to tell me "God hates a coward"... only way to find out is to try.

Hunter07 · 12-20-2012, 08:33 PM

Just for grins (and the fact that I don't know), what, if any advantages does the .460 Rowland offer over the .45 ACP?

Ballistics?

Ammo cost/availability?

Anything else?

I'm interested in knowing. Thanks.

10 Bears · 12-20-2012, 09:44 PM

It's like a .45 Magnum.

Compare .44 Special with .44 Mag.

About the same story.

Thanatos · 12-21-2012, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter07

Just for grins (and the fact that I don't know), what, if any advantages does the .460 Rowland offer over the .45 ACP?

...

I'm interested in knowing. Thanks.

I have never fired a "store bought" round through mine... Have only loaded my own. Store bought? Expensive. And not readily available.

I use a Nosler 185 grn hollow point, Starline virgin brass, CCI pistol primers, AA7 powder. Not going to give you the weight of the charge... Think around 1600 fps with the load I shoot, and well under one inch grouping off of a bench at 50 yds., but no "pistol vice". With that comp on the barrel, shoots as soft as 230 grn .45acp hardball. Or put another way... around 900 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. Half again more than the Corbon .45acp+P, to put it in perspective. All the power of a .44 RemMag, but in a 1911 platform.

The more I tipped the powder can? The more accurate the round became. BUT... do your own careful/cautious work-up. This thing is loaded seriously hot... hot enough that Clarks has a warning concerning using Rock Island frames and slides... they will not stand up to it. And Les Baer - over the phone - was advising not to do that to one of his frames. It is a SERIOUS "wild cat" round. All that you are going to get out of a 1911 pattern pistol. Loaded a little softer? It still lifts its hind leg and pisses all over the 10mm and other rounds. It is still significantly hotter than the .45 Super, which is pretty powerful in its own right.

Carefully loaded? It shoots fast, it shoots flat, it works at extended ranges, it hits HARD, and it shoots soft. Once you have experienced it? You will be addicted.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Got the Dlask trigger fitted to the frame, filed on the magnesium pad to fit, then polished the titanium bow and the channel in the frame where it slides. Filed on the frame until the Wilson thumb safety moves through its proper arc. Next step is to fit the arm on the grip safety to the trigger bow so that they function together properly. Hammer/sear etc comes later...

Oh... and need to drill and tap the holes into the frame's dust cover for mounting the optic rail. Also cut the "rear sight" dovetail where the cocking T-handle will go - slide was ordered without any sight dovetail cuts so that everything would be perfect. Bought the Weigand optics rail several years ago with this in mind... have been thinking about this for a long, long time, just never had the time to devote to the project. When everything is fitted and the pistol has been test fired, will send the slide, frame, barrel, optics mount, etc off to Robar down in Arizona to have them finish it in their Roguard - love the job that they did on my ParaOrdnance!

It has been more than 10 years since I first talked with Johnny Rowland about this round... and converted a brand new Kimber a couple of years ago. I love the round enough that I am building two full on custom pistols for it, the Caspian with the 40mm tube red dot optic, the Les Baer for daily carry with fiber optic sights.

Thanatos · 12-21-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 Bears

It's like a .45 Magnum.

Compare .44 Special with .44 Mag.

About the same story.

That's a REALLY good comparison, come to think of it!

Thanatos · 12-21-2012, 05:50 PM

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen

Doc Burgess · 12-21-2012, 10:34 PM

You are right about the .460 Rowland, Thanatos and what you say about its performance is accurate.

I am biased in that Jim Clark was a good friend of mine. Jim shot in all of my pistol matches during the 1970s. Johnny Rowland is also a good friend. I was honored one day when Rowland, while demonstrating his .460 to a large crowd, called me from the crowd to fire his pistol. He was staying at my home at the time.

The .460, as you explain, is a superb cartridge. I also use AA7 powder. There are a few other powders that I use, but I prefer AA7. I shoot a hard cast lead H&G 200 grain plain base bullet at 1,400 fps, the standard 230 grain RN hard cast lead bullet at 1,160 fps and my 230 grain HB at 1,200 fps. The felt recoil with the compensator is very mild and the pistol easily controlled. I have killed big game with the lead load. The HB round goes through a 9 inch live Aspen tree. It functions flawlessly with HB and 98 % wtih lead. the round is very accurate.

Hunter07 · 12-21-2012, 11:21 PM

Thanatos, thank you Sir, for your reply & the info.

I am just curious and have very limited knowledge about things such as this.

Thanatos · 12-22-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter07

Thanatos, thank you Sir, for your reply & the info.

I am just curious and have very limited knowledge about things such as this.

If you have an "extra" 1911 and are looking for something "different"?

DO IT!!!

You simply have to experience it to believe how great this round is!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Burgess

You are right about the .460 Rowland, Thanatos and what you say about its performance is accurate.

I am biased in that Jim Clark was a good friend of mine. Jim shot in all of my pistol matches during the 1970s. Johnny Rowland is also a good friend. I was honored one day when Rowland, while demonstrating his .460 to a large crowd, called me from the crowd to fire his pistol. He was staying at my home at the time.

The .460, as you explain, is a superb cartridge. I also use AA7 powder. There are a few other powders that I use, but I prefer AA7. I shoot a hard cast lead H&G 200 grain plain base bullet at 1,400 fps, the standard 230 grain RN hard cast lead bullet at 1,160 fps and my 230 grain HB at 1,200 fps. The felt recoil with the compensator is very mild and the pistol easily controlled. I have killed big game with the lead load. The HB round goes through a 9 inch live Aspen tree. It functions flawlessly with HB and 98 % wtih lead. the round is very accurate.

Thanks for the assist!

I am not a friend with either of the gentlemen, but I talked with them both over the phone, and listened to everything they had to say... I can be REAL humble when men with knowledge deign to share it in my range of hearing!

It was Wirblewind over at Gunsnet that convinced me to build one... only thing that slowed my decision was waiting until I had purchased a press and become sufficiently proficient at hand-loading.

I was left with over 1,000 rounds of loaded ammo when I sold my converted Kimber? What choice did I have but to build a couple of .460s?

12-15-2012, 02:48 PM	#1
Thanatos Grunt-o-saurus Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: I Corps Posts: 5,973	.460 Rowland Since I sold my Kimber about a year ago when I was offered a stupid amount of money for it, and the guy wanted it returned to .45acp before he bought it... I pulled out the Clarks .460 Rowland comped barrel. Went looking for another Kimber last summer only to find... stupid price tags on them. Not willing to pay grand theft pricing... I checked Brownells for pricing on slides and frames, since I was going to replace everything else, anyway... Found pretty good pricing on the Les Baer slides and frames, and ordered the pair, along with every other part necessary to build it. Then, out of curiosity, I took a look at the pricing on the Caspian slides and frames... a couple hundred dollarws less. Ordered another slide and frame. Am now building a pair of .460 Rowlands, one on the Les Baer, the other on the Caspian. The Les Baer will have fiber optic sights; the Caspian is getting a Weigand optics mount and will be wearing a frame mounted red dot. Surporised me at the time required to fit the slides to the frames - Les Baer told me on the phone about 16 hours. He was right. Mr. Dremel is on vacation; all of this detail work is done with files. And it is time consuming. But... this is about the tightest, slickest frame/slide mating that I have ever found. Photos show current state of extremely slow progress.

12-15-2012, 03:54 PM	#2
Hunter07 I'm a grumpy SOB Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Frostbite Falls, MN Posts: 10,527	Lookin' good so far!

12-17-2012, 10:35 AM	#3
500grains Soldier of Allah Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Crackerland Posts: 31,662	The thought of the recoil makes my wrist hurt!

12-17-2012, 10:52 AM	#4
10 Bears Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: E-Da-How Posts: 137,846	Good luck with optics on that one.

12-20-2012, 08:33 PM	#6
Hunter07 I'm a grumpy SOB Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Frostbite Falls, MN Posts: 10,527	Just for grins (and the fact that I don't know), what, if any advantages does the .460 Rowland offer over the .45 ACP? Ballistics? Ammo cost/availability? Anything else? I'm interested in knowing. Thanks.

12-20-2012, 09:44 PM	#7
10 Bears Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: E-Da-How Posts: 137,846	It's like a .45 Magnum. Compare .44 Special with .44 Mag. About the same story.

12-21-2012, 05:50 PM	#10
Thanatos Grunt-o-saurus Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: I Corps Posts: 5,973	http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen

12-21-2012, 10:34 PM	#11
Doc Burgess Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 70	You are right about the .460 Rowland, Thanatos and what you say about its performance is accurate. I am biased in that Jim Clark was a good friend of mine. Jim shot in all of my pistol matches during the 1970s. Johnny Rowland is also a good friend. I was honored one day when Rowland, while demonstrating his .460 to a large crowd, called me from the crowd to fire his pistol. He was staying at my home at the time. The .460, as you explain, is a superb cartridge. I also use AA7 powder. There are a few other powders that I use, but I prefer AA7. I shoot a hard cast lead H&G 200 grain plain base bullet at 1,400 fps, the standard 230 grain RN hard cast lead bullet at 1,160 fps and my 230 grain HB at 1,200 fps. The felt recoil with the compensator is very mild and the pistol easily controlled. I have killed big game with the lead load. The HB round goes through a 9 inch live Aspen tree. It functions flawlessly with HB and 98 % wtih lead. the round is very accurate.

12-21-2012, 11:21 PM	#12
Hunter07 I'm a grumpy SOB Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Frostbite Falls, MN Posts: 10,527	Thanatos, thank you Sir, for your reply & the info. I am just curious and have very limited knowledge about things such as this.