Twist rate 30/30

therev · 03-12-2012, 07:41 PM

Twist rate on a Winchester 94 30/30 seems to be 1 in 12 whereas the twist rate on a Marlin 336 30/30 seems to be 1 in 10.
Why would they be different?
Over the weekend I found a Winchester 94 with a 26 inch barrel that I would like to set up for plinking 115 grain cast lead. If it is indeed 1 in 12 what is the best weight to shoot?

Rew · 03-13-2012, 07:08 PM

I don't know the reason for the different twist rate. My 94 has a more common 20" barrel and does fine with a 109-111grn cast gas checked bullet also the little Speer 100 grn plinker bullet.

therev · 03-14-2012, 03:38 AM

I have not found a lighter cast bullet than the 115. The price was ok at $9.50 per 100. The 100 grain Speers I find are closer to $16.00 per 100.

IRWildman · 03-15-2012, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therev

I have not found a lighter cast bullet than the 115. The price was ok at $9.50 per 100. The 100 grain Speers I find are closer to $16.00 per 100.

if you are casting your own, and interested in a lighter bullet, i have a 90 Gr. RN .310 or .311 mold, if interested let me know and i'll dig it out,

Rew · 03-15-2012, 02:46 PM

My Lee mold reads on the box 115 grn. But I cast real hard for both .357, and 9mm, then I'll change molds and cast the little .308 cal for the last pound and a half or so. They come out a little lighter than what the box reads. Agreed if you buy the Plinkers it cost more, I was just relating as to how the twist rate in my 94 handled a 100 grn bullet.

Thaddius Bickerton · 03-18-2012, 09:57 PM

Faster twist helps stabilize longer bullets, thus 1 in 7 for the 69 and 70 grainish AR15 .223 boolets.

Shorter boolets do fine with a slow twist.

For practical purposes 1 in 10 is as good as 1 in 12 in 30 30.

I would point out that Marlin's can have either "micro grove" rifling or Ballard cut rifiling.

I prefer ballard (Winchester is ballard) for use with all boolet weights n both cast (with gas check at velocity over 1500 fps) and jacketed boolets.

In the 30 30 there is no real improvement in velocity over factory stuff from my experience, there can be cost savings, light loads using some of the large cowboy action type powders / light load powders, and black powder loads.

Oh almost forgot using cast boolets.

I really like to work up a 180 grain cast load using a gas check on the boolet (I always mispell it; it is just how I spell bullet don't mind me)

Usually shoot for around 1800 fps out of a 20 inch barrel; or if using a 26ish one then a bit over 2000 fps, maybe push 2100 or 2200 if the weapon will work and shoot it.

That load will take a pig or deer and you can about eat right up to the boolet hole. Never had one run more than a few steps on me.

I have used 110 grain boolets for the 30 carbine in light 30 30 loads in marlins with micro grove rifling, but they tend to not like every boolet / powder charge and you have to play around with micro grove rifling , thus my preference for more forgiving ballard.

The marlin cowbow rifles with ballard rifling and octagonal barrels around 24 or more inchs long (I'm forgetting and no tape measure / rifle near enough to hand for meas. at the moment) will shoot about anything I throw in em and do what I ask.

Oh sorry for the ramble but both twists ought to stabilize any jacketed boolet. cast, you want ballard rifling and again either twist ought to be fine. The differences 1 in10 and 1 in 12 is mostly just idiosyncrasies of the maker IMHO.

In black powder rifles the shorter the boolet / ball, the slower the twist has always been my rule of thumb.

Example would be a TC hawkin with maxi boolet at a 1 in 48 twist and a patched round ball out of a similar weapon wanting a 1 in 66 twist. Notice we are talking a 20 inch difference in twist rate conical vs ball.

A 110 grain 30 30 boolet is pretty near round ball so assuming very slow velocities I would prefer a slower twist based on BP exp. but just as a guess, never done any experiments with em.

therev · 03-25-2012, 07:29 AM

Well, the shipment came in for the boolits. I'm excited. I got one box of the 100 gr. plinkers just for fun and 500 115 gr. cast. I will load Trailboss for the cast, not sure yet what I will use on the plinkers. I would like to see if they can stabilize at high speed. Just bottled the latest batch of beer and after clean up it will be on to the reloading room.

Rew · 03-25-2012, 11:28 AM

Normally, when I load light for the 30-30 with my cast or the plinkers I use Unique powder. It really is a useful powder, light loads in rifle's, medium to heavy loads in handguns and even shotgun loads. Yup, my most used powder.

therev · 04-01-2012, 08:33 PM

I used R7 on the plinkers. I really didn't see any advantage over a heavier bullet except maybe velocity. The recoil was more than I expected on such a light bullet. If I want to go light with copper in the future I will try the M1Carbine 110 grain round nose.
The hard cast I am still playing with. I am a little surprised by how deep I have to seat them to get then to load properly. Nonetheless I will keep trying with Trailboss.

03-12-2012, 07:41 PM	#1
therev Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 77	Twist rate 30/30 Twist rate on a Winchester 94 30/30 seems to be 1 in 12 whereas the twist rate on a Marlin 336 30/30 seems to be 1 in 10. Why would they be different? Over the weekend I found a Winchester 94 with a 26 inch barrel that I would like to set up for plinking 115 grain cast lead. If it is indeed 1 in 12 what is the best weight to shoot?

03-13-2012, 07:08 PM	#2
Rew Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 9,710	I don't know the reason for the different twist rate. My 94 has a more common 20" barrel and does fine with a 109-111grn cast gas checked bullet also the little Speer 100 grn plinker bullet.

03-14-2012, 03:38 AM	#3
therev Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 77	I have not found a lighter cast bullet than the 115. The price was ok at $9.50 per 100. The 100 grain Speers I find are closer to $16.00 per 100.

03-15-2012, 02:46 PM	#5
Rew Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 9,710	My Lee mold reads on the box 115 grn. But I cast real hard for both .357, and 9mm, then I'll change molds and cast the little .308 cal for the last pound and a half or so. They come out a little lighter than what the box reads. Agreed if you buy the Plinkers it cost more, I was just relating as to how the twist rate in my 94 handled a 100 grn bullet.

03-18-2012, 09:57 PM	#6
Thaddius Bickerton Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,627	Faster twist helps stabilize longer bullets, thus 1 in 7 for the 69 and 70 grainish AR15 .223 boolets. Shorter boolets do fine with a slow twist. For practical purposes 1 in 10 is as good as 1 in 12 in 30 30. I would point out that Marlin's can have either "micro grove" rifling or Ballard cut rifiling. I prefer ballard (Winchester is ballard) for use with all boolet weights n both cast (with gas check at velocity over 1500 fps) and jacketed boolets. In the 30 30 there is no real improvement in velocity over factory stuff from my experience, there can be cost savings, light loads using some of the large cowboy action type powders / light load powders, and black powder loads. Oh almost forgot using cast boolets. I really like to work up a 180 grain cast load using a gas check on the boolet (I always mispell it; it is just how I spell bullet don't mind me) Usually shoot for around 1800 fps out of a 20 inch barrel; or if using a 26ish one then a bit over 2000 fps, maybe push 2100 or 2200 if the weapon will work and shoot it. That load will take a pig or deer and you can about eat right up to the boolet hole. Never had one run more than a few steps on me. I have used 110 grain boolets for the 30 carbine in light 30 30 loads in marlins with micro grove rifling, but they tend to not like every boolet / powder charge and you have to play around with micro grove rifling , thus my preference for more forgiving ballard. The marlin cowbow rifles with ballard rifling and octagonal barrels around 24 or more inchs long (I'm forgetting and no tape measure / rifle near enough to hand for meas. at the moment) will shoot about anything I throw in em and do what I ask. Oh sorry for the ramble but both twists ought to stabilize any jacketed boolet. cast, you want ballard rifling and again either twist ought to be fine. The differences 1 in10 and 1 in 12 is mostly just idiosyncrasies of the maker IMHO. In black powder rifles the shorter the boolet / ball, the slower the twist has always been my rule of thumb. Example would be a TC hawkin with maxi boolet at a 1 in 48 twist and a patched round ball out of a similar weapon wanting a 1 in 66 twist. Notice we are talking a 20 inch difference in twist rate conical vs ball. A 110 grain 30 30 boolet is pretty near round ball so assuming very slow velocities I would prefer a slower twist based on BP exp. but just as a guess, never done any experiments with em.

03-25-2012, 07:29 AM	#7
therev Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 77	Well, the shipment came in for the boolits. I'm excited. I got one box of the 100 gr. plinkers just for fun and 500 115 gr. cast. I will load Trailboss for the cast, not sure yet what I will use on the plinkers. I would like to see if they can stabilize at high speed. Just bottled the latest batch of beer and after clean up it will be on to the reloading room.

03-25-2012, 11:28 AM	#8
Rew Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 9,710	Normally, when I load light for the 30-30 with my cast or the plinkers I use Unique powder. It really is a useful powder, light loads in rifle's, medium to heavy loads in handguns and even shotgun loads. Yup, my most used powder.

04-01-2012, 08:33 PM	#9
therev Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 77	I used R7 on the plinkers. I really didn't see any advantage over a heavier bullet except maybe velocity. The recoil was more than I expected on such a light bullet. If I want to go light with copper in the future I will try the M1Carbine 110 grain round nose. The hard cast I am still playing with. I am a little surprised by how deep I have to seat them to get then to load properly. Nonetheless I will keep trying with Trailboss.