Trying to decide on a gas piston weapon system

Lysander · 10-26-2007, 01:05 PM

So the market is currently over flowing with gas piston weapons systems. I'm looking for some feedback from those who've owned any of them on the pro's and con's of each one. Yes, there's even an AK variant in there.

So first:

Sig 556:
I encouraged my friend to buy one of these after I shot someone else's at the range. We took his out and shot it, much to our enjoyment. While a little heavy at the end, this makes follow up shots, at least to my perception, a bit faster than with a standard AR.

Pro's: It's a Sig, uses AR magazines, comes with a serviceable rail.
Con's: limited parts interchangeability with the more common AR platform.

RobArm XCR:

Pro: Modularity (though I prefer 6.5G over 6.8), excellent reviews, AR 15 compatibility for most things.

Cons: Robarm has a history of "fire and forget" with their products; The M-96 and now Vepr series comes to mind. Also it comes with a side folding stock whereas I prefer a collapsible stock to adjust it to my use.

POF 16" Predator:
Pro's: AR based, gotten really good reviews, modular.
Con's: Rails are a bit off and slightly heavier, require special custom made.

LWRC M16-A2:

To be honest I don't know much about them, but the few people I've talked to have good things to say. I'd go for a 16" barrel for better ballistic performance.

Con: They're spendy. $1400 for an upper.

ARES GSR-35 Black Lightning

This is their "Drop in" short stroke gas system. You can't say the name Ares without thinking about the "Shrike", so I'm understandably hesitant about this system, given their past history and failure to perform and deliver.

So these are the weapons/uppers/systems I'm looking at. Any and all feedback (including any I may have overlooked/forgot/didn't know about) please share!

HorseSoldier176 · 10-26-2007, 01:41 PM

I guess my first question is, what is it you are trying to accomplish?

I ask, because if you are after a reliable "combat" weapon, then my answer would be different than if you are after a plinker.

Lysander · 10-26-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier176

I guess my first question is, what is it you are trying to accomplish?

I ask, because if you are after a reliable "combat" weapon, then my answer would be different than if you are after a plinker.

I've got tons of plinkers.

I've liked the AR-15 except for one deal: I think it has quite possibly the worst designed gas system in history. That's pretty much a deal breaker. It makes maintenance on them time consuming and difficult, and in the end, is an unnecessary PITA in this day and age.

I'm not a soldier, nor am I cop. My intentions are never to have to play one either. This is a gun that will handle everything from home defense (replacing my 870), to defense in the course of some God awful natural disaster a la Katrina to me going down to the range and shooting 300rds at clay pigeons. I've got a couple of Saigas now and they're fine, I just don't care for the basic ergonomics of Kalashnikov's design. I'm not a 5'8 Russian peasant wearing bulky clothing.

HorseSoldier176 · 10-27-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander

I've got tons of plinkers.

I've liked the AR-15 except for one deal: I think it has quite possibly the worst designed gas system in history. That's pretty much a deal breaker. It makes maintenance on them time consuming and difficult, and in the end, is an unnecessary PITA in this day and age.

I'm not a soldier, nor am I cop. My intentions are never to have to play one either. This is a gun that will handle everything from home defense (replacing my 870), to defense in the course of some God awful natural disaster a la Katrina to me going down to the range and shooting 300rds at clay pigeons. I've got a couple of Saigas now and they're fine, I just don't care for the basic ergonomics of Kalashnikov's design. I'm not a 5'8 Russian peasant wearing bulky clothing.

Then I would suggest the M-1A/M-14, or M-1 Garand. Has all the knock down power you could ever want, relatively easy to maintain, and operate. Both ammo, and parts are available, and both systems are reliable as all get out. Only reason the U.S. military got rid of the M-14, was political, not reliability, or capability.

Lysander · 10-28-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier176

Then I would suggest the M-1A/M-14, or M-1 Garand. Has all the knock down power you could ever want, relatively easy to maintain, and operate. Both ammo, and parts are available, and both systems are reliable as all get out. Only reason the U.S. military got rid of the M-14, was political, not reliability, or capability.

Own a Garand, had an M-1A. Sold it, never got around to purchasing another one. For right now in 308's my Saiga does what I need it to do.

Y'all are making it very hard for me to talk myself into buying something new to tinker with.

GARANDNUT · 10-28-2007, 11:07 AM

Lysander: I have thought about the possible alternatives to the classic AR AK M1 M1A and these are my thoughts. The Sig would be my pick because it is basically an AR made right--ambidextrous safety, AR mags good urgos ect. It is, however, still just an AR. The robarms and others are really only marginal improvements on the AR/AK design. In my opinion non of these weapons are good for home defense unless you do not live in close proximity to other people and structures. So for a shit hits the fan but still can go out and have good fun at the range I would suggest the M1 for the reasons already stated by Horse. I would also add that the clips can stay loaded forever without concern for mag springs. The rifle is accurate, reliable and can cross over from defense to range to hunting without any modifications, it has the best iron sights of any battle rifle, 30.06 is available all over the world, you can still buy cheap mil surplus ammo in the thousands of rounds pre loaded in clips and bandoleers, and it has great resale value. If the shtf for real and you are battling some type of army use the Garand to kill a soldier and liberate him of his FA weapon otherwise there is no need for a semi look a like. But to answer your question and to help you "justify" a new weapon then go with the Sig and give us a range report after you shoot it.

AKWARRIOR · 10-26-2007, 02:41 PM

I would sure like to know why those new US made SIGs are being marketed with a M4 collapsible stock on them.I think it looks ridiculous and should be sold with the side folders that come on the real deal.Really if I were you I would stick with the AR-15.I have never had problems with them.Just buy a gas piston upper if you have to and your set.

Lysander · 10-26-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKWARRIOR

I would sure like to know why those new US made SIGs are being marketed with a M4 collapsible stock on them.I think it looks ridiculous and should be sold with the side folders that come on the real deal.Really if I were you I would stick with the AR-15.I have never had problems with them.Just buy a gas piston upper if you have to and your set.

The side folding stock that's non-collapsible is an antique design and one strike for me against the XCR. In this day and age a rifle with a collapsing stock can fit someone like me (6'3 210lbs) or be adjusted to fit my girlfriend (5'4, 110lbs) with ease. The best of both worlds (and what I'd do to the sig and most of the other rifles) is go with an ACE side folding mechanism in combination with a Magpul CTR stock.

NCshooter26 · 10-26-2007, 06:20 PM

Go with the Sig

75_stingray · 10-26-2007, 06:45 PM

You guys may think that I'm ak all the way,,,,,,but my sweeties are actually my FN FAL's!

What'cha think?

Broncodarts · 10-27-2007, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75_stingray

You guys may think that I'm ak all the way,,,,,,but my sweeties are actually my FN FAL's!

What'cha think?

WWWHHAAAAAAAATTTTT???????????

75_stingray · 10-27-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broncodarts

WWWHHAAAAAAAATTTTT???????????

I thought you'de like that,lol!
I've got another Imbel and STG-58 squirreled away in the closet waiting to be added to the collection.

I've over 6k of 308 hidden away, and I don't drag the FAL's out very often.
I guess you and I can thank GaryP for the FN fever.

Broncodarts · 10-27-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75_stingray

I thought you'de like that,lol!
I've got another Imbel and STG-58 squirreled away in the closet waiting to be added to the collection.

I've over 6k of 308 hidden away, and I don't drag the FAL's out very often.
I guess you and I can thank GaryP for the FN fever.

I had that bug before I met Gary, but he sure did help feed the addiction.

Have you talked to him lately?

nutinauniversalshell · 10-26-2007, 08:09 PM

I am damn close to AK all the way. But I do like the FAL.

And ine guy has a Vector PTR-91...SBR HK 308 with both collapsable and fixed stocks.....NOW THAT IS AN AWESOME FIREARM!

AKWARRIOR · 10-26-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutinauniversalshell

I am damn close to AK all the way. But I do like the FAL.

And ine guy has a Vector PTR-91...SBR HK 308 with both collapsable and fixed stocks.....NOW THAT IS AN AWESOME FIREARM!

I would sure like a PTR-91 jungle carbine with the Od furniture.Almost bought one a few times.

10-26-2007, 01:05 PM	#1
Lysander The "Diet Coke" of Evil Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 74	Trying to decide on a gas piston weapon system So the market is currently over flowing with gas piston weapons systems. I'm looking for some feedback from those who've owned any of them on the pro's and con's of each one. Yes, there's even an AK variant in there. So first: Sig 556: I encouraged my friend to buy one of these after I shot someone else's at the range. We took his out and shot it, much to our enjoyment. While a little heavy at the end, this makes follow up shots, at least to my perception, a bit faster than with a standard AR. Pro's: It's a Sig, uses AR magazines, comes with a serviceable rail. Con's: limited parts interchangeability with the more common AR platform. RobArm XCR: Pro: Modularity (though I prefer 6.5G over 6.8), excellent reviews, AR 15 compatibility for most things. Cons: Robarm has a history of "fire and forget" with their products; The M-96 and now Vepr series comes to mind. Also it comes with a side folding stock whereas I prefer a collapsible stock to adjust it to my use. POF 16" Predator: Pro's: AR based, gotten really good reviews, modular. Con's: Rails are a bit off and slightly heavier, require special custom made. LWRC M16-A2: To be honest I don't know much about them, but the few people I've talked to have good things to say. I'd go for a 16" barrel for better ballistic performance. Con: They're spendy. $1400 for an upper. ARES GSR-35 Black Lightning This is their "Drop in" short stroke gas system. You can't say the name Ares without thinking about the "Shrike", so I'm understandably hesitant about this system, given their past history and failure to perform and deliver. So these are the weapons/uppers/systems I'm looking at. Any and all feedback (including any I may have overlooked/forgot/didn't know about) please share! __________________ "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." "The political causes of decay were rooted in one fact - that increasing despotism destroyed the citizen's civic sense, and dried up statesmanship at its source." - Dr. Will Durant, The Story of Civilization, Vol. 11

10-26-2007, 01:41 PM	#2
HorseSoldier176 Retired Soldier Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Central PA Posts: 14,148	I guess my first question is, what is it you are trying to accomplish? I ask, because if you are after a reliable "combat" weapon, then my answer would be different than if you are after a plinker. __________________ Free citizens are armed citizens, but only armed citizens are truly free! Bruce R. Gadbois 2008

10-26-2007, 02:41 PM	#7
AKWARRIOR Gone Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Here and Now Posts: 13,454	I would sure like to know why those new US made SIGs are being marketed with a M4 collapsible stock on them.I think it looks ridiculous and should be sold with the side folders that come on the real deal.Really if I were you I would stick with the AR-15.I have never had problems with them.Just buy a gas piston upper if you have to and your set. __________________ WOLVERINES!!! "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined"-Patrick Henry

10-26-2007, 06:20 PM	#9
NCshooter26 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NC Posts: 2,672	Go with the Sig __________________ "I'd rather hunt with Dick Cheney than ride with Ted Kennedy."

10-26-2007, 06:45 PM	#10
75_stingray 388ci Bored & Stroked SB Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Charleston SC. Posts: 2,980	You guys may think that I'm ak all the way,,,,,,but my sweeties are actually my FN FAL's! What'cha think? __________________ Always consider potential Allies. Never dismiss that they may be the enemy until proven otherwise. Be careful how you hold both; You could turn one into the other. (63DH8) There will always be a large group of people that will be preyed upon, consumed by predators just like in a school of fish. Some fish don't venture out into the deep water, others do so only when they've developed big teeth, but most just swim along looking at how blue the water is.(GN Member)

10-28-2007, 11:07 AM	#6
GARANDNUT Pontificator Maximus Join Date: May 2006 Location: between the hills Posts: 8,756	Lysander: I have thought about the possible alternatives to the classic AR AK M1 M1A and these are my thoughts. The Sig would be my pick because it is basically an AR made right--ambidextrous safety, AR mags good urgos ect. It is, however, still just an AR. The robarms and others are really only marginal improvements on the AR/AK design. In my opinion non of these weapons are good for home defense unless you do not live in close proximity to other people and structures. So for a shit hits the fan but still can go out and have good fun at the range I would suggest the M1 for the reasons already stated by Horse. I would also add that the clips can stay loaded forever without concern for mag springs. The rifle is accurate, reliable and can cross over from defense to range to hunting without any modifications, it has the best iron sights of any battle rifle, 30.06 is available all over the world, you can still buy cheap mil surplus ammo in the thousands of rounds pre loaded in clips and bandoleers, and it has great resale value. If the shtf for real and you are battling some type of army use the Garand to kill a soldier and liberate him of his FA weapon otherwise there is no need for a semi look a like. But to answer your question and to help you "justify" a new weapon then go with the Sig and give us a range report after you shoot it.

10-26-2007, 08:09 PM	#14
nutinauniversalshell Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: TN Posts: 1,238	I am damn close to AK all the way. But I do like the FAL. And ine guy has a Vector PTR-91...SBR HK 308 with both collapsable and fixed stocks.....NOW THAT IS AN AWESOME FIREARM! __________________ If you can't buy it build it. If you can't build it buy two.