Suppressed Nagant Revolver

ptannjr · 05-11-2007, 09:55 AM

How to reduce Officer Nagant's trigger pull?

Hello PT, Hope this finds you well. I have a question I was hoping you could help with. I have aquired a Soviet Nagant revolver which I enjoy very much. But, as you probably know, it has a very hard trigger pull in double action. Do you know of any way to lighten or smoothen the trigger pull on one of these? Also, do you know anything of the silenced version used by the Soviets in WW 2?

Thanks; Dave (Privileged GOW Visitor)
naganlau.jpg (11885 bytes)
answer.GIF (573 bytes) A very slight stoning of friction surfaces of hammer's catch and trigger is allowed, but don't overdo it! A fine Arkansas oil-stone (used for sharpening of straight razors and Record hypodermic needles in past decades) is good for this purpose. Usual Russian trick was also to place a steel cylinder, with diameter ca. 8 millimeters, between lower limb of a mainspring (trigger spring) and frontmost steel frame of revolver grip. You may find easily a correct place, where this little cylinder must be installed.

Photo: A small nut is in this case used instead of a cylinder described in text.

Length of this cylinder must be about same than is the width of trigger spring. You may also grind the trigger spring (lower limb of a mainspring) carefully somewhat thinner ahead of the implanted "spring tension relieving cylinder", but again: Do not overdo any irreversible actions. Nagant's trigger mechanism needs rather high spring power, because the same trigger spring is also a release spring of the wedge, pushing the cartridge cylinder forwards, when cocking of the hammer is almost carried out. If the trigger spring power is insufficient, the wedge stays in it's upmost position and it is impossible to rotate the cartridge (magazine) cylinder. It may happend when the mouth of a cartridge case is jammed into rear end of barrel.

Trimming of Nagant's trigger mechanism is more easy to carry out than explain verbally (even in Finnish language). It is, however, impossible to reduce trigger pull weight of Nagant to the level of - say - pull of Enfield Albion, because the same trigger spring is needed also for return movement of the cylinder wedge. Single action shooting is therefore advisable.
silnagan.jpg (5807 bytes)
Photo: One of post-war silenced Nagants with a Minireflex Moderator.

There is not too much information about a silenced Nagant revolver available, but they were really existing! No drawings (one from a German booklet, another in Russian source) exposes the bayonet mount construction of silencer. Jacket's outer diameter was somewhat bigger than o.d. of revolver cylinder. There were nine straight rubber "wipes" or baffles inside the jacket. Silencing effect of them degraded presumably after just a few shots due to the bullet shape of Nagant revolver cartridge: The very first flat-nosed bullet could drill a permanent hole through all the wipes.

Thickness of them was ca. 8 millimeters. They had a cross-like slices on their center. Because of thickness of the silencer jacket and concentric mounting of it, the silencer covered iron sights of Nagant entirely. Use of silenced Nagant was therefore a short-range job: Maximum effective range was about four arshins (2.85 meters) when the silenced Nagant was used by an average Red Partizan who was never practised "instinctive shooting" without use of sights at all.

It seems to be impossible to get reliable information about Nagant revolver silencer (photographs or detailed drawings, dimensions and weight). It was presumably never mass-produced because of it's impractical construction and large size.

0208 MM; PT

http://www.guns.connect.fi/gow/QA7.html

Pogo · 05-11-2007, 10:06 AM

A silencer on a Nagant! Dang, I never heard of such a thang. And I wouldn't bother doing a trigger job on one either. They are just too crudely made to do much with. As far as I'm concerned, they are a collector's item, not a shooter.

I've got one that I bought a few years ago. I put about 6 rounds thru it, and then put it in my safe where it's been ever since.

ptannjr · 05-11-2007, 10:08 AM

got mine and you have 6 more rounds down the pipe than me!!

gunkgy · 05-11-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptannjr

got mine and you have 6 more rounds down the pipe than me!!

same here

scheistermeister · 05-11-2007, 01:02 PM

I've thought about getting one. Hell the price is hard to beat. But at this point in my life I'd rather have something I could enjoy more.

HorseSoldier176 · 05-11-2007, 01:53 PM

I have a 1944 Nagant revolver, and it is a nice weapon, but in double action it is a bear to pull. Keep in mind that you are not moving just the hammer, but the entire cylinder, which is why I fire mine in single action only. I also have the .32 ACP cylinder, so that is what I normally fire through it. I do have a 7.62 Nagant cylinder, and a box of Fiochhi ammo for it, but I have never fired the 7.62 Nagant ammo.

I agree it is more a collector peice, than a practical combat weapon, but hey, I only paid $90.00 for it, so what the heck.

I can't imagine that the Nagant was a practical wepon for supression, especially since by WWII the Soviets had the TT-33, which would have been a much better candidate for supression.

AKWARRIOR · 05-11-2007, 03:37 PM

First time I fondled one of these was in the very early 90's.I bought one a few years ago and mine has also sat in the safe since.I do pull it out sometimes to fondle it but thats about it.They do make a nice collectors piece though.Ill bet the silencer model was favored by the NKVD.

There is a picture in one of my books showing Mikhail Kalashnikov in uniform firing one of these during WW2.Might be able to find it on the net.IIRC he seemed to like the pistol.

Blammer · 05-11-2007, 04:23 PM

In the Nagant's fireing cycle, the cylinder is forced against the throat of the barrel, forming a gas seal that would make a supresser possable, but likely not very practical.
Intresting pics tho.....

You could likely get similar sound supression by squibloading a .32ACP to subsonic velocities... and not have to mess with Federal regulations.
Grungy trigger = makes a Webly .380 seem light by comparason. Which is why I have a Webly, but passed on the Nagant.

Pogo · 05-11-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blammer

Grungy trigger = makes a Webly .380 seem light by comparason. Which is why I have a Webly, but passed on the Nagant.

Yep, I have a Webley too. It's a much better firearm, but I got it for collecting, not shooting.

gunnysmith · 05-11-2007, 11:39 PM

The Nagant was the only revolver with which the use of a suppressor was practical for the stated reasons.
There were other attempts made but none were sucessful.
The Russians did however, design this one in later years:
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg194-e.htm

HorseSoldier176 · 05-12-2007, 12:21 AM

A 7.62 Nagant bullet is actually set below the rim of the cartridge case, and the rim is crimped to form lips that expand into the throat of the barrel when the cylinder pushes forward.

It is the wackiest round, but it seems to work. It just isn't very practical, for all the reasons already outlined.

RetVet · 05-12-2007, 07:55 AM

Got a half dozen of them and have yet to shoot any. Don't have any ammo. Might buy a box of the original stuff one of these days, but it would just be for it's collector potential to go with the revolvers.

HorseSoldier176 · 05-12-2007, 07:34 PM

I think it is CAI, but somebody makes a drop in replacement cylinder that allows you to fire .32ACP from the Nagant revolver. You might want to look into one of them.

Rew · 05-13-2007, 09:44 AM

You can fire .32 S&W through the Nagant too I believe.

Pogo · 05-13-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rew

You can fire .32 S&W through the Nagant too I believe.

Yes, that is what I fired in mine.

05-11-2007, 09:55 AM	#1
ptannjr Just a dude! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ocala, Fl Posts: 6,059	Suppressed Nagant Revolver How to reduce Officer Nagant's trigger pull? Hello PT, Hope this finds you well. I have a question I was hoping you could help with. I have aquired a Soviet Nagant revolver which I enjoy very much. But, as you probably know, it has a very hard trigger pull in double action. Do you know of any way to lighten or smoothen the trigger pull on one of these? Also, do you know anything of the silenced version used by the Soviets in WW 2? Thanks; Dave (Privileged GOW Visitor) naganlau.jpg (11885 bytes) answer.GIF (573 bytes) A very slight stoning of friction surfaces of hammer's catch and trigger is allowed, but don't overdo it! A fine Arkansas oil-stone (used for sharpening of straight razors and Record hypodermic needles in past decades) is good for this purpose. Usual Russian trick was also to place a steel cylinder, with diameter ca. 8 millimeters, between lower limb of a mainspring (trigger spring) and frontmost steel frame of revolver grip. You may find easily a correct place, where this little cylinder must be installed. Photo: A small nut is in this case used instead of a cylinder described in text. Length of this cylinder must be about same than is the width of trigger spring. You may also grind the trigger spring (lower limb of a mainspring) carefully somewhat thinner ahead of the implanted "spring tension relieving cylinder", but again: Do not overdo any irreversible actions. Nagant's trigger mechanism needs rather high spring power, because the same trigger spring is also a release spring of the wedge, pushing the cartridge cylinder forwards, when cocking of the hammer is almost carried out. If the trigger spring power is insufficient, the wedge stays in it's upmost position and it is impossible to rotate the cartridge (magazine) cylinder. It may happend when the mouth of a cartridge case is jammed into rear end of barrel. Trimming of Nagant's trigger mechanism is more easy to carry out than explain verbally (even in Finnish language). It is, however, impossible to reduce trigger pull weight of Nagant to the level of - say - pull of Enfield Albion, because the same trigger spring is needed also for return movement of the cylinder wedge. Single action shooting is therefore advisable. silnagan.jpg (5807 bytes) Photo: One of post-war silenced Nagants with a Minireflex Moderator. There is not too much information about a silenced Nagant revolver available, but they were really existing! No drawings (one from a German booklet, another in Russian source) exposes the bayonet mount construction of silencer. Jacket's outer diameter was somewhat bigger than o.d. of revolver cylinder. There were nine straight rubber "wipes" or baffles inside the jacket. Silencing effect of them degraded presumably after just a few shots due to the bullet shape of Nagant revolver cartridge: The very first flat-nosed bullet could drill a permanent hole through all the wipes. Thickness of them was ca. 8 millimeters. They had a cross-like slices on their center. Because of thickness of the silencer jacket and concentric mounting of it, the silencer covered iron sights of Nagant entirely. Use of silenced Nagant was therefore a short-range job: Maximum effective range was about four arshins (2.85 meters) when the silenced Nagant was used by an average Red Partizan who was never practised "instinctive shooting" without use of sights at all. It seems to be impossible to get reliable information about Nagant revolver silencer (photographs or detailed drawings, dimensions and weight). It was presumably never mass-produced because of it's impractical construction and large size. 0208 MM; PT http://www.guns.connect.fi/gow/QA7.html __________________ Consider this, Amateurs built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic http://www.OcalaCarAudio.com

05-11-2007, 10:06 AM	#2
Pogo Mystic Knight of the Sea Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Great Swamp Posts: 82,005	A silencer on a Nagant! Dang, I never heard of such a thang. And I wouldn't bother doing a trigger job on one either. They are just too crudely made to do much with. As far as I'm concerned, they are a collector's item, not a shooter. I've got one that I bought a few years ago. I put about 6 rounds thru it, and then put it in my safe where it's been ever since. __________________ .................................................. ....................................… *We have met the enemy, and he is us!*

05-11-2007, 01:53 PM	#6
HorseSoldier176 Retired Soldier Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Central PA Posts: 14,148	I have a 1944 Nagant revolver, and it is a nice weapon, but in double action it is a bear to pull. Keep in mind that you are not moving just the hammer, but the entire cylinder, which is why I fire mine in single action only. I also have the .32 ACP cylinder, so that is what I normally fire through it. I do have a 7.62 Nagant cylinder, and a box of Fiochhi ammo for it, but I have never fired the 7.62 Nagant ammo. I agree it is more a collector peice, than a practical combat weapon, but hey, I only paid $90.00 for it, so what the heck. I can't imagine that the Nagant was a practical wepon for supression, especially since by WWII the Soviets had the TT-33, which would have been a much better candidate for supression. __________________ Free citizens are armed citizens, but only armed citizens are truly free! Bruce R. Gadbois 2008

05-11-2007, 03:37 PM	#7
AKWARRIOR Gone Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Here and Now Posts: 13,454	First time I fondled one of these was in the very early 90's.I bought one a few years ago and mine has also sat in the safe since.I do pull it out sometimes to fondle it but thats about it.They do make a nice collectors piece though.Ill bet the silencer model was favored by the NKVD. There is a picture in one of my books showing Mikhail Kalashnikov in uniform firing one of these during WW2.Might be able to find it on the net.IIRC he seemed to like the pistol. __________________ WOLVERINES!!! "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined"-Patrick Henry

05-11-2007, 04:23 PM	#8
Blammer Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Western Continental Shelf Posts: 590	Supression is a possability... In the Nagant's fireing cycle, the cylinder is forced against the throat of the barrel, forming a gas seal that would make a supresser possable, but likely not very practical. Intresting pics tho..... You could likely get similar sound supression by squibloading a .32ACP to subsonic velocities... and not have to mess with Federal regulations. Grungy trigger = makes a Webly .380 seem light by comparason. Which is why I have a Webly, but passed on the Nagant. __________________ I'll think of something profound - eventually The North American Badger, while not overtly aggressive, will fight like a Demon from Hell - if Provoked.....& What are YOU Looking At?!?!?

05-11-2007, 10:08 AM	#3
ptannjr Just a dude! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ocala, Fl Posts: 6,059	got mine and you have 6 more rounds down the pipe than me!!

05-11-2007, 01:02 PM	#5
scheistermeister Throbbing Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,727	I've thought about getting one. Hell the price is hard to beat. But at this point in my life I'd rather have something I could enjoy more.

05-11-2007, 11:39 PM	#10
gunnysmith Fear what you cannot see Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6,730	The Nagant was the only revolver with which the use of a suppressor was practical for the stated reasons. There were other attempts made but none were sucessful. The Russians did however, design this one in later years: http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg194-e.htm __________________ Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. H. L. Mencken

05-12-2007, 12:21 AM	#11
HorseSoldier176 Retired Soldier Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Central PA Posts: 14,148	A 7.62 Nagant bullet is actually set below the rim of the cartridge case, and the rim is crimped to form lips that expand into the throat of the barrel when the cylinder pushes forward. It is the wackiest round, but it seems to work. It just isn't very practical, for all the reasons already outlined.

05-12-2007, 07:55 AM	#12
RetVet Statistical Error Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Homeless Posts: 43,709	Got a half dozen of them and have yet to shoot any. Don't have any ammo. Might buy a box of the original stuff one of these days, but it would just be for it's collector potential to go with the revolvers. __________________ ^^^ For entertainment purposes. Use only as directed. ^^^ III

05-12-2007, 07:34 PM	#13
HorseSoldier176 Retired Soldier Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: South Central PA Posts: 14,148	I think it is CAI, but somebody makes a drop in replacement cylinder that allows you to fire .32ACP from the Nagant revolver. You might want to look into one of them.

05-13-2007, 09:44 AM	#14
Rew Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 9,710	You can fire .32 S&W through the Nagant too I believe.