Invasion

[Bluntforce]

Originally Posted by 44044

Bluntforce...I read Dune and Stranger

back in the early '70's, I can just barely

remember anything about them but the

high points...

May I suggest listening to Leon Russell's

song...Stranger in a Strange Land...it can

have several different meanings...

He was called the Master of Space and Time

I’ll go do that.

Just watched Cronkite interview Heinlein and Arthur C. Clarke on the day of the moon landing and Heinlein accepting the Hugo Award in KC in 1975. When he told the hippies there would always be war, they booed him.

If I figure out how to post from the phone I will.

Didn’t mean to hijack.

[Doc]

Perhaps you Sci-Fi disposed can link your writings to the natural right of the 2nd Amendment? Three of the top Sci-Fi writers, Clarke, Asimov and Heinlein wrote millions of words about the moon, robots and love.

Asimov was born in the Russian Federation and wrote or edited more than 500 books, many of them non-fiction. He began his education at the age of 5 in Brooklyn. After receiving his PhD in biochemistry he taught at the Boston University School of Medicine. He obviously was very learned in mathematics. One of his books was, I, Robot. One of his rules of writing was that a human couldn't hurt a robot.

Heinlein, my favorite, was graduated from Annapolis where he was a champion swordsman. In his superb novel, Time Enough For Love he gave us, through his hero, Lazarus Long, many original thoughts:

"Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark."

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."

"The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute--get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed."

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

"Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house."

"Darling, a true lady takes off her dignity with her clothes and does her whorish best. At other times you can be as modest and dignified as your persona requires."

"Everybody lies about sex."

"It is better to copulate than never."

Heinlein was the Dean of Science Fiction.

I'll get back to the 2nd Amendment later.

Doc

[44044]

Originally Posted by Bluntforce

I’ll go do that.

Just watched Cronkite interview Heinlein and Arthur C. Clarke on the day of the moon landing and Heinlein accepting the Hugo Award in KC in 1975. When he told the hippies there would always be war, they booed him.

If I figure out how to post from the phone I will.

Didn’t mean to hijack.

On my phone...I scroll down to the bottom

and just tap on the 'bubble' and the

keyboard pops up...if that is what you

mean?...

My apologies Doc...

[Doc]

44044,

I see you're in east Missouri. I was born in southwest Missouri eight miles out of Joplin. I bought my first rifle, a .22, when I was 12 years old. Still got it. My father used to take me to turkey shoots where we shot live turkeys. I used my .22. I got pretty good at it. They tethered them behind a log Sgt. York's style. Two bits a shot, all from standing.

I've been shooting turkeys ever since.

12 year old's don't have rights anymore, but the commie schools turn 'em out to protest the 2nd Amendment. I doubt that any of 'em can quote the 2nd Amendment, including their teachers, and they probably can't diagram that complex sentence. I'm sure they've never heard of Miller and Layton, let alone a militia shotgun, sour mash and a still.

Doc

[mr-ak-47]

Originally Posted by Doc

44044,


12 year old's don't have rights anymore, but the commie schools turn 'em out to protest the 2nd Amendment. I doubt that any of 'em can quote the 2nd Amendment, including their teachers, and they probably can't diagram that complex sentence. I'm sure they've never heard of Miller and Layton, let alone a militia shotgun, sour mash and a still.

Doc

...welllll....but they can tell you every corcth on M-TV,...who da kardasiends are fucking, ...have the coolest I phone, no every slogan Forward, Change, sex is ok at 9 or 10, .....and thaose are the teachers...

...the 12 yeasr olds can decide they are transgender, no need for parents, doctors to disagree here,....eat a Tide I pod, ...know every quote by mao, stalin,....rubban al sherpjigg ...and jesse "boy" jaggleson....climate change....about white privalage ....reading spanish on packages,...infor from mega stars....illegals are people too....and no God but,....islam is about peace...


.....

[44044]

Doc...

I actually live in what we call the

upper part of the Bootheel...this

ground was all swamp until it was

drained hence we call it SwampEast Mo

You grew up in a very beautiful part of

our state, I need to get back out that

way again...

[Doc]

44044,

We had huge fields of wild blackberries. I sold 'em at ten cents the quart. Pretty soon I had $6.00, enough to buy my rifle.

In the eighth grade, taking Latin, we laid Caesar alongside the Constitution. I learned that once 'cha cross the Rubicon it's hard to get back.

I'll have some words about John Locke and Blackstone later. They talked about natural law and self defense, sort of. You know, commune and all.

Gotta watch 'ole Caesar, huh, Brute?

Doc

[Stalky]

Unintended Consequences was a great read I hope others have enjoyed.
John Ross?

[Stalky]

Which book was there that talked about the laminated firearm building process? Interesting at the time. Being on a distant world and all.

[44044]

When I was younger, I read all of the time

Sadly I just don't seem to have the time anymore

[Bluntforce]

Originally Posted by Stalky

Which book was there that talked about the laminated firearm building process? Interesting at the time. Being on a distant world and all.

There was something like it in Heinlein’s SIXTH COLUMN. There was a vibrational device that could heal and harm only those you wished to by ethnic/racial vibration. Seemed based on race specific collective unconcious, Dasein, energy or mitochondrial DNA energy/vibrational markers.

These were priest/scientist tools. For the foot soldiers they made simple energy weapons that resembled pistols and were limited directional weapons. The cool ones with the flashy lights seemed to be directed wave weapons.

Vibration weapons tuned to coons would be so much safer than bio/genetic warfare agents that someone must be pursuing it, it’s an idea at least seventy years old.

Their church basement pistols may have been made with this process, been a while.

[Doc]

John Locke and Blackstone argued that when an individual joined with his fellow individuals the right to self defense became that societies responsibility and not the right of the individual.

Both, however, "allowed" the individual the right to self defense until societies' protectors arrived to save the day.

After the 1934 National Firearms Act communists argued that the right to keep and bear arms was the right of the Militia only.

Scalia wrote the majority opinion in Heller that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right. He stated that Heller was not a complete opinion regarding the 2nd Amendment and then he screwed the pooch by saying that the states have the power to regulate guns. That power, apparently, stems from the 10th Amendment that protects the power of the people and the states.

Curiously, "the people," a concept argued by many as a collective power in the 10th Amendment and an individual right in the rest of the Bill of Rights allows for the peoples' votes to check the states' usurping of power to gun control.

Hardly.

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. In spite of Heller.

Scalia also argued in Heller, borrowing from Marbury v Madison, that a law repugnant to the Constitution is null and void.

States' legislatures that vote for repugnant laws remain in power because of their constituents invidious character. Put another way they are all commies seeking a gulag.

Comes now the Tyranny of the Majority. In this case the usurped power of the states to gun control and some states relentless goose step to gun confiscation.

See, Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America.

See also, The Federalist Papers, Madison #52. . . "Justice is the end of government. It is the end of civil society. It ever has been and ever will be pursued until it be obtained, or until liberty be lost in the pursuit. In a society under the forms of which the stronger faction can readily unite and oppress the weaker, anarchy may as truly be said to reign as in a state of nature, where the weaker individual is not secured against the violence of the stronger. . ."

Doc

[Bluntforce]

I have a pet theory that silencer/suppressors were included in the NFA to starve subsistance poachers during the Depression.

The position that short barreled shotguns were not common in military usage was perhaps the boldest faced lie any branch of this government ever told up to that point. It ranks with the Indian treaties. Blunderbusses being used on ship deck predated our Independence by two centuries and was a common weapon on American naval ships for the same purposes other navies used them, to repel boarders.

Muskets of any length loaded with shot was common in American military usage until dedicated shotguns came along. In military use they (shotguns built for the military) were always shorter barreled than rifles.

If Miller had appeared before the court the chances of successfully defeating that arguement was excellent.

In THE AGE OF THE GUNFIGHTER the author Dr. Rosa (do not remember first name, University of Oklahoma Press) asserts the full automatic weapons used by the notorious bank robbers were mostly BARs stolen from National Guard armories. If true, the NFA did next to nothing to address the criminals that made the FBI famous outside the cities. The Thompson was not popular because of its great weight, tendency to jam and comparatively (to the .30-06 BAR) underpowered round. City gangs and their preferences in weapons was not discussed that I recall.

(He also claims no town in the Old West was ever held in thrall by an armed gang because armed citizens simply would not put up with it.)

[Stalky]

Originally Posted by Bluntforce

I have a pet theory that silencer/suppressors were included in the NFA to starve subsistance poachers during the Depression.

The position that short barreled shotguns were not common in military usage was perhaps the boldest faced lie any branch of this government ever told up to that point. It ranks with the Indian treaties. Blunderbusses being used on ship deck predated our Independence by two centuries and was a common weapon on American naval ships for the same purposes other navies used them, to repel boarders.

Muskets of any length loaded with shot was common in American military usage until dedicated shotguns came along. In military use they (shotguns built for the military) were always shorter barreled than rifles.

If Miller had appeared before the court the chances of successfully defeating that arguement was excellent.

In THE AGE OF THE GUNFIGHTER the author Dr. Rosa (do not remember first name, University of Oklahoma Press) asserts the full automatic weapons used by the notorious bank robbers were mostly BARs stolen from National Guard armories. If true, the NFA did next to nothing to address the criminals that made the FBI famous outside the cities. The Thompson was not popular because of its great weight, tendency to jam and comparatively (to the .30-06 BAR) underpowered round. City gangs and their preferences in weapons was not discussed that I recall.

(He also claims no town in the Old West was ever held in thrall by an armed gang because armed citizens simply would not put up with it.)

Agreed on all remarks. And I like a lively discussion such as this one men and thanks to all for their input.

[Doc]

The 1934 National Firearms Act was unconstitutional then as it is now. Silencers, the length of a shotgun's barrel, machine guns and other issues such as interstate transport of banned guns and parts formed the court's battery. It became a tax issue, if one wished to own a machine gun, for instance, in that a $200.00 tax had to be paid for each item and the owner fingerprinted, etc.

I noted, Suppra. that Miller and Layton (1939) were to appear before SCOTUS to defend their right to own a shotgun using the 2nd Amendment. Neither Miller, Layton nor their attorney appeared before the court, they were AWOL. SCOTUS found that Miller was guilty of possession of a sawed off double barrel shotgun, a Stevens. There was no one in court to present arguments for the defense of the 2nd Amendment, or the accused. Miller was found guilty and fined $1.00. He was never thereafter heard from. I don't know if the court ever got their dollar, but they got their deserved reputation, that they were repugnant.

Now just what the hell is a repugnant law? John Marshall said, in 1803 that a repugnant law was unconstitutional, null and void. Scalia, in Heller said the same. Heller said that the District of Columbia must issue a permit to Heller to posses a loaded pistol in his home. The permit itself is repugnant.

I'm just getting started.

Doc