Llama problems

Bluntforce · 04-16-2008, 09:18 PM

My sister owns a Llama that has a hammer problem. When she fires the weapon, the hammer falls to half-cock. It never fires twice per pull, and sometimes it works right. This is the only problem she has with it. What is the likely cause?

Pogo · 04-16-2008, 09:39 PM

I'm guessing it is either a worn hammer or sear.

You might take a look at this drawing. It is one of a 1911. I don't have one for a Llama yet. But, it is almost exactly the same as a Llama.

Take a look at how the sear stops the hammer after it has been cocked or fired.

Double click on the link to make it expand.

http://www.dirtydozensbunker.com/ima...parts/1911.gif

Bluntforce · 04-16-2008, 10:06 PM

I just tested the grip safety. It does not work. I cocked it and held it without depressing the grip safety and the trigger moves back and the hammer falls smoothly.

I'm taking it apart to see if it is missing a part.

Bluntforce · 04-16-2008, 10:39 PM

I'm telling her to take it to a gunsmith.

Moon · 04-16-2008, 11:12 PM

Probably a worn-out or broken sear.

Bluntforce · 04-17-2008, 05:39 PM

Thank you. I'll replace the sear and see if that does it.

I put the flat mainspring housing and standard grips on my 1911 yesterday. I fell in love with it all over again! It fits my hand finally. The fool that came up with arched housings needed a swift kick to the nutsack.

Bluntforce · 04-18-2008, 04:05 PM

Ordered sear from GPC today, will update on results.

Pogo · 04-18-2008, 07:48 PM

Did you take it apart first? It could be either the sear (probably is) or it could be the notch in the hammer - especially if the previous owner thought he was a gunsmith and tried to lighten up the trigger pull.

nutinauniversalshell · 04-18-2008, 09:51 PM

llama, half-cock, is this supposed to be in the firearms talk, or barnyard adventures?

Yeah, its one of those days.

9teen11 · 04-19-2008, 08:16 AM

Try increasing the spring tension on the finger of the flat leaf spring that tensions the sear, also, try bending the finger of the spring that operates the grip safety. Might solve both problems for you. The spring in question is the flat 3 fingered deal that lives under the mainspring housing. Depending on the age of the pistol & use its seen it could be time to get a new spring & tune it.

Also, the arched mainspring housing was introduced on the 1911a1 model to compensate for the shortening of the trigger.

If you look at Browning's original 1911 design the trigger was very long and the MSH was flat, however, it didnt leave much room for a gloved hand to to access the trigger guard. The arched MSH and shorter trigger was the trade off to make more room in the trigger guard. Have a look at a picture of a 1911 & a 1911a1 & you will get the idea.

Having typed all that, I always set my 1911 type pistols up with Smith & Alexander flat MSH with integral mag well & 20 LPI checkering. (30 LPI looks nice but doesnt bite into the hand enough for me).

Bluntforce · 04-19-2008, 09:25 AM

In it's life it was stolen once and when the little shit (who stole it) found out he was playing with a real crime, called up the idiot he sold it to for return. This brave individual drove by my sister's house and returned it by tossing it out of the window of his car onto the lawn.

She had a very thick lawn, but I don't know what time of year it was or how it landed.

The pistol never had a problem before it's airborne career.

Pogo · 04-19-2008, 09:58 AM

I didn't think about the spring, but

could very well be right. That would certainly make the pistol act in that fashion.

Bluntforce · 04-24-2008, 12:23 PM

I found out it is the spring. Ordering one today.

9teen11 · 04-24-2008, 06:06 PM

The sear spring often is behind that problem. (Next in line is the full cock notch in the hammer). Not because of a defective spring (or hammer)as such, but usually because of DIY trigger jobs. Reducing the spring tension on the sear is one way of making the trigger lighter but the problem you have is often the result. The spring is meant to put firm pressure on the sear so it engages properly & reliably.

I have seen the "experts" "tuning triggers" for others by this method alone in the carpark of the gun club & thinking they are something special.

Tuning a trigger on the 1911 platform is a balancing act involving the entire trigger group and the 4 springs that work together with it.

Ive never understood why people dont just learn to shoot with a stock gun instead of dicking around with things that only compromise the whole idea of having a piece.

Bluntforce · 04-24-2008, 09:50 PM

FWIW I believe it landed on its hammer or the grip safety when it was thrown from the car. The third (one on the right) "finger" was severely bent toward the back. It almost has a corner in it.

I did not take it fully apart at first, I know I'm not a gunsmith and didn't want to damage it. The notches on the hammer and the sear are sharp and show no signs of filing or polishing.

The sear spring looks different (the severe angle in 'third' finger) than ones in schematics and photos.

The sear was less than $10.00, so as long as I don't damage the pistol reassembling it with the new spring, it was a cheap lesson.

Thank you for the help.

04-16-2008, 09:18 PM	#1
Bluntforce slug Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Allturd State Posts: 21,864	Llama problems My sister owns a Llama that has a hammer problem. When she fires the weapon, the hammer falls to half-cock. It never fires twice per pull, and sometimes it works right. This is the only problem she has with it. What is the likely cause?

04-16-2008, 09:39 PM	#2
Pogo Mystic Knight of the Sea Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Great Swamp Posts: 81,967	I'm guessing it is either a worn hammer or sear. You might take a look at this drawing. It is one of a 1911. I don't have one for a Llama yet. But, it is almost exactly the same as a Llama. Take a look at how the sear stops the hammer after it has been cocked or fired. Double click on the link to make it expand. http://www.dirtydozensbunker.com/ima...parts/1911.gif __________________ .................................................. ....................................… *We have met the enemy, and he is us!*

04-16-2008, 11:12 PM	#5
Moon IncogNegro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,825	Probably a worn-out or broken sear. __________________ "Thou shalt not be a son-of-a-bitch". Magnus392, from Rules of Chuck 00011

04-18-2008, 09:51 PM	#9
nutinauniversalshell Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: TN Posts: 1,238	llama, half-cock, is this supposed to be in the firearms talk, or barnyard adventures? Yeah, its one of those days. __________________ If you can't buy it build it. If you can't build it buy two.

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04-16-2008, 10:06 PM	#3
Bluntforce slug Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Allturd State Posts: 21,864	I just tested the grip safety. It does not work. I cocked it and held it without depressing the grip safety and the trigger moves back and the hammer falls smoothly. I'm taking it apart to see if it is missing a part.

04-16-2008, 10:39 PM	#4
Bluntforce slug Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Allturd State Posts: 21,864	I'm telling her to take it to a gunsmith.

04-17-2008, 05:39 PM	#6
Bluntforce slug Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Allturd State Posts: 21,864	Thank you. I'll replace the sear and see if that does it. I put the flat mainspring housing and standard grips on my 1911 yesterday. I fell in love with it all over again! It fits my hand finally. The fool that came up with arched housings needed a swift kick to the nutsack.

04-18-2008, 04:05 PM	#7
Bluntforce slug Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Allturd State Posts: 21,864	Ordered sear from GPC today, will update on results.

04-18-2008, 07:48 PM	#8
Pogo Mystic Knight of the Sea Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Great Swamp Posts: 81,967	Did you take it apart first? It could be either the sear (probably is) or it could be the notch in the hammer - especially if the previous owner thought he was a gunsmith and tried to lighten up the trigger pull.

04-19-2008, 08:16 AM	#10
9teen11 PERMANENTLY BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,080	Try increasing the spring tension on the finger of the flat leaf spring that tensions the sear, also, try bending the finger of the spring that operates the grip safety. Might solve both problems for you. The spring in question is the flat 3 fingered deal that lives under the mainspring housing. Depending on the age of the pistol & use its seen it could be time to get a new spring & tune it. Also, the arched mainspring housing was introduced on the 1911a1 model to compensate for the shortening of the trigger. If you look at Browning's original 1911 design the trigger was very long and the MSH was flat, however, it didnt leave much room for a gloved hand to to access the trigger guard. The arched MSH and shorter trigger was the trade off to make more room in the trigger guard. Have a look at a picture of a 1911 & a 1911a1 & you will get the idea. Having typed all that, I always set my 1911 type pistols up with Smith & Alexander flat MSH with integral mag well & 20 LPI checkering. (30 LPI looks nice but doesnt bite into the hand enough for me).

04-19-2008, 09:25 AM	#11
Bluntforce slug Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Allturd State Posts: 21,864	In it's life it was stolen once and when the little shit (who stole it) found out he was playing with a real crime, called up the idiot he sold it to for return. This brave individual drove by my sister's house and returned it by tossing it out of the window of his car onto the lawn. She had a very thick lawn, but I don't know what time of year it was or how it landed. The pistol never had a problem before it's airborne career.

04-19-2008, 09:58 AM	#12
Pogo Mystic Knight of the Sea Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Great Swamp Posts: 81,967	I didn't think about the spring, but could very well be right. That would certainly make the pistol act in that fashion.

04-24-2008, 12:23 PM	#13
Bluntforce slug Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Allturd State Posts: 21,864	I found out it is the spring. Ordering one today.

04-24-2008, 06:06 PM	#14
9teen11 PERMANENTLY BANNED Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,080	The sear spring often is behind that problem. (Next in line is the full cock notch in the hammer). Not because of a defective spring (or hammer)as such, but usually because of DIY trigger jobs. Reducing the spring tension on the sear is one way of making the trigger lighter but the problem you have is often the result. The spring is meant to put firm pressure on the sear so it engages properly & reliably. I have seen the "experts" "tuning triggers" for others by this method alone in the carpark of the gun club & thinking they are something special. Tuning a trigger on the 1911 platform is a balancing act involving the entire trigger group and the 4 springs that work together with it. Ive never understood why people dont just learn to shoot with a stock gun instead of dicking around with things that only compromise the whole idea of having a piece.

04-24-2008, 09:50 PM	#15
Bluntforce slug Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Allturd State Posts: 21,864	FWIW I believe it landed on its hammer or the grip safety when it was thrown from the car. The third (one on the right) "finger" was severely bent toward the back. It almost has a corner in it. I did not take it fully apart at first, I know I'm not a gunsmith and didn't want to damage it. The notches on the hammer and the sear are sharp and show no signs of filing or polishing. The sear spring looks different (the severe angle in 'third' finger) than ones in schematics and photos. The sear was less than $10.00, so as long as I don't damage the pistol reassembling it with the new spring, it was a cheap lesson. Thank you for the help.