Hunting and A$$holes.

[Desert Rat]

I think you have to also "improve" the property, Moon, to AP it. But "improvements" can be damn near anything...so not hard to satisfy. I know a guy in south Texas who adversely possessed a HUGE piece of land owned by a real estate outfit back east that tried a scam. The old devil got the land and died a RICH man thanks to the oil they found beneath it.

[Moon]

Originally Posted by Desert Rat

I think you have to also "improve" the property, Moon, to AP it. But "improvements" can be damn near anything...so not hard to satisfy. I know a guy in south Texas who adversely possessed a HUGE piece of land owned by a real estate outfit back east that tried a scam. The old devil got the land and died a RICH man thanks to the oil they found beneath it.

Wow, that is one lucky devil !!

You do not have to make improvements to the land to AP it in Texas (other jurisdictions might have different rules). You just have to make a use of it that is hostile to the true owner's interest in the land.

Also, you can only AP a mineral interest in land in Texas if the minerals have not been severed from the surface estate.... UNLESS the AP'er drills and captures oil/gas and keeps it for the statutory period (10 years, I think. Might be wrong on that one). Either way, he's a lucky guy !

The only law I can think of in Texas that has anything to do with improvements on land, is the doctrine of partial performance.... but that has nothing to do with AP.

[Desert Rat]

I'll yield to your comments on AP in Texas, Moon. I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV. I heard about this case when I worked briefly as land man. I was sent down to get the family of this guy to sign big oil lease. The old devil who did the AP was in hospital and heading for last round-up.

The land they got in the AP was some REALLY sorry stuff, only suitable for growing some fine prickly pear cactus. The old guy ran a few head of scraggly cattle on it after he figured out the Eastern real estate company wasn't coming back. What a land scam they had planned for people looking to "own a few acres of Texas." I think they ran out of money before it even got off ground.

I have a feeling the old guy who got the land couldn't even spell "Adverse Possession" when he started running his cattle on their land. I think he was more into simple theft. But somewhere down the road, someone told him he could steal it all...not just a few clumps of grass.

[Bluntforce]

Here's how I became aware of HU/AP from THE DAILY OKLAHOMAN. Some idjit owned a piece of land behind his house. His asshole neighbors walked across it year in, year out.

The neighbors went to a lawyer and got title to the part they had used. The paper said it had to be 15 years in Oklahoma.

When the "owner" got ready to build a fence around his land just prior to retirement, the neighbors hit him with this crap and built a fence of their own.

This is how I recall it. 15 years was the time given in the paper. The fence building sequence may have been different, but the land grabbers had paperwork in hand by the time either side made a move.

The original owner had never heard of this facet of the law before.

Some other dumbasses bought a piece of land w/o mineral rights and insisted on making a lawyer rich by trying to fight an oil company putting a pipeline on "their" land. If you don't have mineral rights, you don't own it. If some asshole builds something on it or uses it w/o your knowledge, you don't own it. If Wal-Mart wants it, you don't own it.

[Desert Rat]

You can do some ugly things with AP for sure. And right-of-way is another subject for terror stories.

Peeps buying land without getting the mineral rights happens a zillion times a year all across America. And there is nothing wrong with it...sort of. They need to research their likelihood of oil/gas/mineral exploration in their area PRIOR to purchase. Little likelihood = little risk.

And any use a mineral owner subjects your land to, he has to PAY you for whatever damage he does to your surface rights. Technically an oil company can come bulldoze your house and drill a well where it once sat. But he'll have to pay you for the house and land usage. (Even though that may be small conciliation to you. They don't pay for sentimental value or your hopes and dreams.) Oil companies try to avoid these sad situations. They'd much rather make a deal And believe it or not, there CAN be good deals for everyone to be had...such as a free road all can use or a water well used in drilling and left for the land owner.

Bottom line is it's a tricky subject. First thing anyone buying land needs is damn good new title review and the second thing is to find themselves a sharp attorney with specialty in land and real estate. These two things can expose 99% of the traps in such a minefield. Without both these, you're flying blind.

[Moon]

Originally Posted by Desert Rat

I'll yield to your comments on AP in Texas, Moon. I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV. I heard about this case when I worked briefly as land man. I was sent down to get the family of this guy to sign big oil lease. The old devil who did the AP was in hospital and heading for last round-up.

The land they got in the AP was some REALLY sorry stuff, only suitable for growing some fine prickly pear cactus. The old guy ran a few head of scraggly cattle on it after he figured out the Eastern real estate company wasn't coming back. What a land scam they had planned for people looking to "own a few acres of Texas." I think they ran out of money before it even got off ground.

I have a feeling the old guy who got the land couldn't even spell "Adverse Possession" when he started running his cattle on their land. I think he was more into simple theft. But somewhere down the road, someone told him he could steal it all...not just a few clumps of grass.

Say, Desert Rat..... was that somewhere near the Chihuahua desert ??

[Desert Rat]

East of Laredo, my friend.

[Moon]

Originally Posted by Desert Rat

East of Laredo, my friend.

Alrighty then. I only ask because one of my idiot sister's idiot husbands almost got roped into buying "a piece of Texas" like you mentioned, out in the damn Chihuahua desert. No surface water of course, and you had to drill to an ungodly depth to get any water at all. The property marketer showed them some tracks, and didn't bother correcting him when my idiot BIL shouted "ELK TRACKS !!". He wasn't the brightest bulb in the box, that's for sure...

Imagine the hysteria it caused in the house when the idiot BIL shared his brilliant plan of "advertising exotic elk hunts in the Houston, San Antonio, and DFW area to pay for the place in six months".

[Desert Rat]

That's funny, Moon.

I'm thinking much of that area is technically considered part of the Chihuahuan Desert. What he thought were "elk tracks" were skinny cattle tracks from this old devil's herd I suspect.

Your BIL would have done better advertising this land for its exotic snakes and poison lizards. Plus I've seen "tarantula hawks" flying around big enough that buckshot wouldn't stop.

Much of that area you could drill to China and probably not get enough potable water to wash your hands.

The best one can say for it is it's pretty when the cactus are blooming. Lots of blood red prickly pear flowers, which are my favorites. I don't think most peeps have seen the ruby red flowers.

[Moon]

He was quite a card, alright. I couldn't figure what animal tracks he might have seen. Skinny feral bovines is a good guess, especially if they're longhorn types (hooves are longer and thinner). I thought maybe javelina or maybe some kind of sheep. Elk, though ?? What a dumbass.

Red prickly pear flowers, eh ?? My grandparents used to live in the hill-country (near Brady, Mason, and Menard), and it seems to me that I can remember yellow flowers... That might also be incorrect, as that was a very long time ago.

[Desert Rat]

Javalina have tiny feet, Moon. Some longhorn cattle is possibility.

Like you, I never knew prickly pear came with a ruby red flower till I got down in this area of Texas. I used to have some land in San Angelo area and great friend in Menard. The pear seemed to be about 80% yellow flower and 20% orange. So your memory isn't faulty about the yellow flowers. I guess genetically that's the strongest flavor.

Did you know the prickly pear plant itself comes in different colors? NM has a variety of it with purple pads...believe it or not.

[Moon]

Originally Posted by Desert Rat

Javalina have tiny feet, Moon. Some longhorn cattle is possibility.

Yes indeed. Javelinas do have tiny feet. You and I both know that, but somehow, I doubt that the boob thinking elk lived in the Chihuahua desert knows that

I kinda miss the hill-country. The grandparents moved to northeast Arkansas (Ozarks) several years ago, and it's beautiful country too ! Just not as many rattlesnakes (and different types too, for that matter)