Question on religion

[HorseSoldier176]

Originally Posted by 5knives

Agreed 100%, as long as we are mindful that God's law is immutable and trump man made laws, regulations and rules every time.

Regards,
...

Absolutely!

Without question!!

[HorseSoldier176]

Originally Posted by RetVet

For those who believe, God is everywhere. No temple, group gathering, or human voice from a pulpit required. I talk, He listens. It's the hearing part I believe most of us have a problem with.

My $.02

I agree RetVet, so long as what you mean is that God listens all the time, it is we humans who fail to listen to him, all the time.

[HorseSoldier176]

Originally Posted by Sanders

There is actually a name I've heard for what many of us here are -- the "unchurched" movement. The unchurched have not lost faith in God, but they have become disillusioned with (MAN'S) church.

My nickle added.

[Czubek]

Originally Posted by Sanders

Church is for fellowship.

But you'll either get into Heaven or not by what is or is not in your heart.

I've asked the same question, too - when did Jesus command his disciples to build a fancy church?

Interesting side note: The church I used to attend before they went full blown money-grubbers, now has a "for sale" sign out front.

When it was a little metal building, the place was packed and the Word of God was preached. When I started going there, I was told the donation boxes were in the back, and there was no pressure to give. They told me that God would provide for the church's needs and they did not believe in incurring debt to expand.

Then, one day, they broke ground on what would become a huge auditorium. Then the preacher started begging for money and trying to guilt-trip the congregation to "reach deeper" "for the Lord". That's when I quit going to that church. The elders had quietly disappeared before that - men I had a lot of respect for.

There is actually a name I've heard for what many of us here are -- the "unchurched" movement. The unchurched have not lost faith in God, but they have become disillusioned with the church.

Our humble little church has been in constant and uninterrupted operation since it was built in 1848. It's nothing fancy, by today's standards, but that doesn't matter. Twice last year we gave away an entire month's collections. We did just add an addition to the school house, but that was paid for with money on hand and we volunteered the labor.

I would agree the church is for fellowship, but would argue that it is also to gain a better understanding of the Word.

As far as the many excuses I've heard for not going to church, and I've used about all of them, I would argue you just haven't found the right church.

That's my 2¢ and my own ever so humble opinions.

Brian

[aviator]

Perhaps true. I have felt good in a Jewish Temple though....but hey...Jesus was (is) Jewish it's men who changed things,

[Preacher]

Ok, sorry I am late to the party.

I will be the first to tell you that there are hypocrites in the Church. I deal with them all the time. But let me ask you this. Do you refuse to go to work because you work with a jerk? Do we quit posting on the Bunker when a spammer joins?

As far as forcing someone to go to Church, no, I don't believe in it. It sounds like the person you are speaking of is being forceful. I would simply recommend finding another Church. I agree that God is everywhere and He has given us a beautiful Creation to enjoy and I do find God when spending time in nature. Likewise, we could also say that money is everywhere. It's in the pocket of every person that walks by. But I still got to go to work to draw a paycheck. I also can go find food in nature, but most of the time I get it from the grocery store.

But this is all an opinion or observation. The Word of God is the final authority. Again, I am against forced religion where you are mandated to attend. But the Word of God is the Word of God. So please, do not take my opinion for it.

Hebrews 10
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

For a little but simpler reading, the Good News Version:

Hebrews 10
23 Let us hold on firmly to the hope we profess, because we can trust God to keep his promise.
24 Let us be concerned for one another, to help one another to show love and to do good.
25 Let us not give up the habit of meeting together, as some are doing. Instead, let us encourage one another all the more, since you see that the Day of the Lord is coming nearer.

Jesus taught with stories that He told to the people. I'm going to share a story that I feel tells it better than any I've read. Hope this helps.

Where 'Ya Been?


The story is told of a man named John who had once been faithful to attend his church regularly, but had grown lackadaisical recently. The Pastor knew that he hadn't seen the gentleman in a while, so he went for a visit.

John greeted the Pastor and welcomed him in, directing him to the chair beside the fireplace. He asked the Pastor what brought him to visit, but the Pastor didn't say a word... .he simply grabbed the fireplace tongs, picked up a hot coal from the fire, and set it away from the fire, out on the hearth. Both men then watched the coal.

While the fire roared on, the coal which had been red hot began to lose it's heat. It gradually lost it's red color, and then cooled off so that it became cool to the touch. The Pastor picked up the coal, and handed it to John for a moment... neither man said a word.

Then the Pastor reached out and took the coal back from John, and returned it to the roaring fire... and in just a few short moments, the coal once again glowed red hot, as the pile of flaming coals caused it to heat up again.

The Pastor then got to his feet, put his hat on, and shook John's hand. At that point, John looked at the Pastor with tears in his eyes, and told him "Thank you for coming, Pastor, and I'll be back in church this coming Sunday!"

Now some of you reading this aren't able to attend church services on a regular basis due to poor health. But for those who CAN attend services, but don't for one reason or another, consider this: Do you need to re-examine your reasons for not going? If it's hypocrites, yes the church is filled with them - do you also stay away from your workplace because of hypocrites there? Do you tell yourself that you can worship God just as well camping, or golfing, or on the lake, as you can in church? If so, you aren't fooling anyone but yourself - and definitely Not God!

If you feel that God's Word isn't being preached in truth, then find a church where it IS - church isn't a cure-all for all of our problems, but it IS a place that you can be surrounded by those who will listen, and those who will pray for you... and you will hear Bible teaching there that you will not hear on the lake!

So again I ask you - what's your excuse? I pray that as you examine this area of your life, that God would move in your heart and give you an intense desire to return to the sanctuary of the church - and that you can once again find the joy of worshipping God with other believers!

[Preacher]

Also wanted to add one more point. Jesus held the Church in high regard and considered it to be a special place. If the temple were just a mere building, then He would not have gotten upset when the moneychangers were abusing the temple. He got mad. He kicked them out and upset their tables.

He also sat down and ate with the publicans and sinners. This was outside of the Church. He did NOT kick over those tables.

The Church was special.

[4thIDvet]

aviator. I am going to be down your way with some good friends.. NOT computer tough guy..
I am half pissed up, but anyone bothers your daughter, they got problems.. We will make their live miserable..

[Czubek]

Originally Posted by Preacher

Ok, sorry I am late to the party.

I will be the first to tell you that there are hypocrites in the Church. I deal with them all the time. But let me ask you this. Do you refuse to go to work because you work with a jerk? Do we quit posting on the Bunker when a spammer joins?

As far as forcing someone to go to Church, no, I don't believe in it. It sounds like the person you are speaking of is being forceful. I would simply recommend finding another Church. I agree that God is everywhere and He has given us a beautiful Creation to enjoy and I do find God when spending time in nature. Likewise, we could also say that money is everywhere. It's in the pocket of every person that walks by. But I still got to go to work to draw a paycheck. I also can go find food in nature, but most of the time I get it from the grocery store.

But this is all an opinion or observation. The Word of God is the final authority. Again, I am against forced religion where you are mandated to attend. But the Word of God is the Word of God. So please, do not take my opinion for it.

Hebrews 10
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

For a little but simpler reading, the Good News Version:

Hebrews 10
23 Let us hold on firmly to the hope we profess, because we can trust God to keep his promise.
24 Let us be concerned for one another, to help one another to show love and to do good.
25 Let us not give up the habit of meeting together, as some are doing. Instead, let us encourage one another all the more, since you see that the Day of the Lord is coming nearer.

Jesus taught with stories that He told to the people. I'm going to share a story that I feel tells it better than any I've read. Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Preacher

Also wanted to add one more point. Jesus held the Church in high regard and considered it to be a special place. If the temple were just a mere building, then He would not have gotten upset when the moneychangers were abusing the temple. He got mad. He kicked them out and upset their tables.

He also sat down and ate with the publicans and sinners. This was outside of the Church. He did NOT kick over those tables.

The Church was special.

Wonderful and eloquent response. You just answered a couple questions I had, also. Thanks.

Brian

[10 Bears]

Well said, Dave, thanks for all the clarifications!

[aviator]

Point taken . Besides being a preacher you are a personal friend so your comment has more validity to me, however, Hebrews 10.25 does not refer to a temple meeting necessarily, specifically where goods and valuables are to be offered in the name of religion ...and face it, that is the primary concern of a mega million dollar catholic church that spans over 50 acres with several buildings.

I don't buy religion, I just follow the golden rules (whenever possible) and talk to My Boss when I need to.

But to pick on me and my daughter....the little guy is barking at the wrong tree. To the point I've told my daughter and two of her friends that if he ever lays a finger on them to let me know...she's only thirteen but very tall and very attractive and I don't trust people in the catholic church.

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by aviator

...... however, Hebrews 10.25 does not refer to a temple meeting necessarily, specifically where goods and valuables are to be offered in the name of religion ...and face it, that is the primary concern of a mega million dollar catholic church that spans over 50 acres with several buildings.

I could not agree more!!! That's when Jesus went to kicking and throwing.

Also could not agree more about trusting others with your daughter. Unfortunately we have predators in every denomination, not just the Catholics.

[HorseSoldier176]

Originally Posted by Czubek

As far as the many excuses I've heard for not going to church, and I've used about all of them, I would argue you just haven't found the right church.

Brian:

I would certainly agree with that point!