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Chaplains Corner A place to discuss religion, personal problems, or to request advise from someone who will listen and provide moral support.

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Old 06-06-2006, 10:11 PM   #1
5knives
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Angry A Question for the Group

a situation developed with my SIL, who as most here know has been Hospitalized in extremely critical condition for several weeks now.

And my most Sincere Thanks to aall here for their Prayers and Good wishes

Here's what happened:

After the first few days of ICU Hospitalization a representative of the Hospital Chaplains Office came to the family members waiting outside ICU and asked about the patients religious affiliation and whether she would want some one to pray for/with her.

The patients MOTHER-IN-LAW immediately responds with a barked "No! She has no religious beliefs, she would not want anyone to pray for her"

The Chaplain said "Okay" and walked out of the waiting room before anyone else (Mother and two sisters) could get over their shock and surprise.

The Loudmouth is a Lawyer (Marquette Law, which should tell you all you need to know about her super-liberal, Clinton's Rule, over-the-hill flower child mentality)

I wasn't present when it happened, found out about it a day later, when the Patients mother (My MIL, 85 years old and in poor health herself) tried to tell me about it but couldn't without breaking into tears.

Well, I went down to the Chaplains Office, explained that the patient was raised and confirmed Roman Catholic, that no one in the family had ever heard her renounce that. And that regardless of any one else's opinion the Family would be very grateful for any ministrations to the patient. That a lot of people were praying for her, and that I told her that at every opportunity, conscious or not and it seemed to ease some of her distress. The Priest assured me he understood and would act accordingly.

The patients husband is so upset and distraught over his wife's illness that he frankly shouldn't be making decisions about what color socks to wear, let alone anything else.

Heres my problem;

I am truly furious over the behavior of the Know it all BS Marquette Lawyer MIL.

I have not seen her privately since this happened, but I still have an irrepressible urge to slam the pompous supercilious B*tch up against the nearest wall,. Inquire gently as to just exactly who the Hell she thinks she is. Explain in a kind and gentle manner that she had no right to dare to answer that question for anyone except herself.

And then to pound her into the puddle of slime that I believe is her natural state.

This is one of the most disgusting, totally unacceptable examples of human behavior I've ever run across, and I've seen some beauties.

So, here's my question for the group here;

Am I over reacting?

Regards,
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:15 PM   #2
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id be pissed too. id take her aside and tell her to keep her mouth shut, especially when the real mother is there.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:20 PM   #3
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Yes, you are. I've been there but the other way around. I do not follow any specific religion, I do believe there is a God but I don't go to any church, if I need to talk to him I do so privately. My father on the other hand was a total non-believer and his wishes were not to have a priest or religious services. The day he died, his present wife and my cousing, both very religious people had gotten to the hospital before I did and called the priest for the last rites, they were finished as I walked in and he was gone too.

Even though his wishes were not exactly carried out, the ones present did what they thought was right and I am not going to blame them or decide against it. You keep doing what you think is right and let them keep their ideas to themselves.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:34 PM   #4
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Well that really depends. If the mother-in-law is right, then you are over reacting. If the mother-in-law is wrong, then you are taking it way calmer then I would have. I probably would have went to her house and her how things were.

If your sister-in-law has religious beliefs, by all means include the Chaplain. If she doesn't, then I'd be praying double-time for her soul in private.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:52 PM   #5
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Oh , I think we're in agreement Aviator!

Maybe I wasn't very clear.

If her Husband had made that comment, fine, no problem, but for the husbands mother to push her views ahead of the patients Husband, her Mother and her siblings is just something I find totally reprehensible.

I would be seriously angry at that kind of behaviour in either direction.

That's just not the kind of decision you make for other people unless you have to.

I think a decision of that nature is just about as personal as it gets.

I see an outside party imposing their views and rejecting that which could benefit a seriously ill person as totally reprehensible.

I believe those sorts of questions are answered in the same order "disconnect" decisions are made, spouse, children, parents.

You Father's wife made a decision to make herself feel better, when she should have honored your Father's wishes. It's understandable, but I think she was very wrong to do that.

Regards,
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:17 AM   #6
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Good points

Actually my SIL. is what I would call a non-practicing or lapsed Catholic, after surviving her horrible experience with cancer, I recall her regular church attendance, even while she was still bald from the effects of the Chemotherapy, her attendance did drop off after meeting her husband. mostly i believe out of respect for his beliefs or lack thereof, I'd call him some sort of an agnostic/skeptic but perhaps too good a scientist to claim to be an atheist.

I suspect he's a victim of the "I'll let my kids decide for themselves when they're old enough." foolishness. IMHO that's how we get cult members!

I always felt that was his mothers input showing there too, as in other aspects of his character. One of the most likable people you'll ever meet but you get an indefinable sense of insecurity outside his area of expertise, not uncommon with young engineers, especially the good ones. He's also a graduate of UW Madison, and four years there would do things to muddle and confuse anyones beliefs.

Actually it's been my experience that most people raised in any religion tend to return to that religion eventually, no matter what they say or do in the meantime. It's called a foundation. Sometime between 45 or so and 80, most people return to their original religion or something similar.

One of the reasons I think religious training and background is important for children, it gives them something to compare alternatives to as they get older.

I've never had any meaningful discussion with either my SIL or her husband on the subject. They may be afraid to raise the topic with me. On the theory that they might not be especially comfortable with what i might say.

Certainly my SIL was praying regularly for my wife 10 years ago when she had her Medical problems.

So to pray for all concerned, sure, I'm doing that, but I still find that I'm angry with the husbands Mother, for inserting herself and usurping what is the most personal decision any human being can ever make. their personal relationship or lack of it with their Creator.

Regards,
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Old 06-07-2006, 06:00 AM   #7
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Sounds like you need to take her down a peg or two....in a gentlemanly manner mind you due to the situation......

After all is settled and she's out of the hospital......then tell the old crow off proper
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Old 06-07-2006, 07:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5knives
Certainly my SIL was praying regularly for my wife 10 years ago when she had her Medical problems.
Then I'd say you have your answer. Politely tell her mother-in-law to take a flying leap. It sounds like she is an athiest also.
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preacher
Then I'd say you have your answer. Politely tell her mother-in-law to take a flying leap. It sounds like she is an atheist also.
Guaranteed my friend!

Of the aggressive, in your face semi-hysterical "and you would be too if you were only half as smart as I am" variety.

Frankly, in spite of her schooling, she's just not as bright as she thinks she is, I'd place her IQ at a little above average at most but certainly nothing to get excited about. I think she might have passed her bar exam many years sooner if she was as smart as she wants people to think she is.

She spent a lot of years in the UW system and topped it off with more at Marquette Law. Marquette is a Jesuit School, famous for turning out extreme leftists and the Law School is quite possibly the most leftist in the U.S.. Very "concerned with social injustice" and I suspect ACLU membership is mandatory.

I've known a number of people who professed to be Atheists, several I consider good friends and most of whom you could actually have a reasonable and rational discussion with and agree to disagree if that's the way things turn out.

She's not that type.

Reading this, I just realized I really do not like the woman or her behavior.

Guess I need to work on the kind, gentle and understanding thing a little more.

Thanks for the comments all!

Regards,
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Old 06-08-2006, 05:56 PM   #10
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Your taking it a lot more calmly than I would. My father explained to me once, when the wife wanted to get the girls baptized in a Catholic ceremony. So what, the few drops of water won't hurt, they have no idea what is going on and it makes your wife feel better. I allowed it to proceed. There are time's to get angry and time's not to. In your shoes I'd be very angry.
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Old 06-08-2006, 06:53 PM   #11
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i don't think you've overreacted....i will keep her and the whole family in my prayers.
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Old 06-08-2006, 08:12 PM   #12
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Thank You All, Again!

By way of update, yesterday was her first day free of the paralytics, and backed way off on the sedatives.

She was responsive, with moments of good clarity, and when I was trying to feed her ice chips (with the fork the idiots had left her) she found it pretty funny when I dropped one down her gown and refused to retrieve it, insisting that if we were in private I'd try to help her out, but with her sister and Mother sitting there it was strictly her own personal problem.

She still cannot talk, but she does know american Sign Language, which a couple of the Nurses know as does one sister, I sure don't so I'm not sure what she might have said to me.

They removed the nasal feeding tube last night, and this morning put in a direct feeding line to her stomach, so we didn't go down today, she'll be sedated all day anyhow.

There has been talk of moving her to a specialized facility which specializes in patients who are destined to be connected to a ventilator, basically for ever, but the staff said yesterday that her improvement the last 2 days has been so good that, perhaps, that won't be necessary. It appears that the expansion of the Fungus is stopped, and what remains is to determine the damage done, and how permanent it is. And of course, to prevent a resurgence.

All in all, good news.

Apropos of this thread, during one of her alert periods yesterday I told her that she had a lot of friends she didn't even know about praying for her.

She was able to nod her head YES, very emphatically, while her eyes filled with tears.

That answers any questions about her wanting prayers.

THANK YOU ALL!




PS, and YES her MIL and I WILL be having a little discussion, soon as the time is right! I can wait ... but it doesn't help my temper any. I'll probably speak forcefully to her.
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Old 06-10-2006, 08:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5knives
Apropos of this thread, during one of her alert periods yesterday I told her that she had a lot of friends she didn't even know about praying for her.

She was able to nod her head YES, very emphatically, while her eyes filled with tears.

That answers any questions about her wanting prayers.

THANK YOU ALL!

It was our pleasure and Thanks for the Good News!!! We'll remember her today too.
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